a college degree in 2025/2026/2027 ... don't

We started with a woman talking about going back to college.    I suggested a humble home and a large garden.  I then suggest SKIP and the bootcamp (gardening gardeners)

I am then asked about health care in the bootcamp.  

I think of the bootcamp as a place where people can focus on learning gardening, natural building and homesteading.  A sort of shitty school.  

For whatever college the woman was headed to, what is the health care there?  What is the cost of the college, the cost of the housing and the cost of food?


And there was mention of people with a lot of stuff that might need to be stored for the bootcamp.   Would it need to be stored for college?

Might have to agree to disagree there. Splitting wood and peeling logs is the kind of thing I love to do, but it is still work. Especially if you have to do it to stay warm, and can’t wander off after an hour.

When a person has baseboard heaters, or natural gas heat and pay $3000 per winter, do they call that "work"?

As for "have to do it to stay warm" - we have big supplies of wood right now.  I think all of our firewood harvesting is done at an extremely easy pace.  Without any desperation to stay warm.

But how many young adults dream of retiring to that humble a home before they’ve done much else?

Dunno.  Maybe a few million?  But I can only take about 20.

do you want to see most boots come and stay forever? Or do they come and hang out, build skills and then move on?

I gotta allow the people that just wanna be here for a few months if I am eventually gonna find the people that will be here for ten years or more.

Honestly I bought into all this about 10 years ago. I pursued a permaculture education and shunned college. Did it give me lots of life skills and prepare me for the future... possibly. The thing about the future is that its unknowable, I certainly don't see AI making many jobs go away in the next 6 months. The job I work at now will have layoffs but AI is barely adopted at all. They still do paper record keeping and this is a Fortune 500. AI just can't read the hand written and scanned PDFs. Don't get me wrong, ill be first in line to buy a robot but that is probably years to a decade away still.

For background I finally got tired of being poor and living with my parents and went back to school at 34. I now make double what my max salary has been at an entry level sustainability job (i know its a joke but it pays more than my apple tree ever did) but still can't find a way to climb out of my terrible social poverty. Land ownership seems like a cruel joke and though it seemed possible a few years ago, today it feels pretty unattainable, especially with a child and limited mobility. If I had gone to college, gotten the piece of paper and got an entry level job I might have my own homestead by now. Instead I waited for the permaculture skills to save me and they never have.

I agree that trades are more valuable than most college degrees, but society still rewards that paper. Get yourself the cheapest degree you can in something versatile. Scan job postings and see what the jobs in your area, theres a business phrase called 'going concern' which basically means assume these businesses will still be operating when you graduate. Governments arent going away either, those jobs arent what they used to be, but if you go on a job website and search 'permaculture' I guarantee the results will be zero. If youre passionate about permaculture and want to live the lifestyle then do that. I would love to do the Ant Village but I've never had the money or freedom to jump in to that experience. If you want to do permaculture design professionally, the minimum in Connecticut is a BS in Architectural Landscape Design. You can't not go to college if you want to pursue this path!
For millions and millions of kids out there, maybe college is a joke and permaculture is better for lots of reasons... but if the world is dying and you still have to get by in a crumbling society. Do whatever you love and think will be a good path for you. Try to have a positive impact (The world always needs more doctors!) and chances are you'll need the college paper for it. My advice is get the debt, have fun in college, try new things, learn new things, extend your childhood as long as you can. College is more than the sum of its parts. Poor without a degree is much worse in my experience than broke with a degree.

Live in a hut to service gardens, vs. sacrificing a lifetime servicing debts.

paul wheaton wrote:

I am then asked about health care in the bootcamp.  

For whatever college the woman was headed to, what is the health care there?  What is the cost of the college, the cost of the housing and the cost of food?

Yep. If she does not have family support, she has maybe 3 options: 1) use loans to pay for insurance and other living expenses, 2) go to school part time, and pay for living expenses from current salary, or 3) maybe save enough to pay for the costs - depending how much they are.
3 is the only option for bootcamp. If you are going to have fun and learn some stuff for a summer, having enough saved isn’t a big deal. If you end up staying for years or decades - yeah, it’s a big deal.

paul wheaton wrote:

And there was mention of people with a lot of stuff that might need to be stored for the bootcamp.   Would it need to be stored for college?.

A woman returning to college will probably keep on in whatever home she has, and keep using her stuff.
I did not mean to suggest that college does not also require resources. Maybe my point was too obvious - totally broke people are not coming to bootcamp for the room and board. The people you are looking for have a certain level of affluence, and hence have options - college, trade school, a job, woofing, backpacking through Switzerland, etc.

paul wheaton wrote:

When a person has baseboard heaters, or natural gas heat and pay $3000 per winter, do they call that "work"?

Yes, of course! The goal of a job is that after a year of work, you have paid for room, board, bills, and fun, and still come out ahead financially. The goal of of collegp is to work (yes, work) to gain the skills you need to get a job that lets you come out ahead.

I gotta allow the people that just wanna be here for a few months if I am eventually gonna find the people that will be here for ten years or more.

What resources does your ideal 10 year person come in with? I listed the expenses I could imagine - health care, visits to family, technology, purchases for the homestead, an exit strategy. Do you disagree with that list? Do you believe (or have you seen) people stay for years without savings?