Have you often perceived defensiveness from people on trying to describe permaculture?

I have run into this a couple times now. I could be misinterpreting simple confusion - i definitely don’t have my description of permaculture worked out great…

But it seemed like when i got into describing how the monocultures of industrial ag lead to the issues that necessitate pesticides, there was this defensiveness that cropped up in the faces and behavior of those i was explaining to.

In my mind it seems plausible that people who are really immersed in industrialized society would feel threatened by someone seemingly calling it out as being fundamentally unsustainable. Thought maybe that would explain the reaction in some part.

Have others seen this reaction, or experienced that defensiveness in another way? And i don’t mean to criticize the people showing this reaction, i think i feel the same to some degree, it’s something that fights with my belief in permaculture principles

I think it is a common human reaction to defend the status quo if you have never thought of changing it.

Anytime you are discussing systemic change, you will need to expect that people living within the system you wish to change will put your ideas to the test.

Here is an excellent Oatmeal comic on the very topic of how the brain protects a carefully constructed worldview.

I don't even bring up big ag initially. The description of what Permaculure is and how  it works. I  like to get a non confrontational positive conversation started  before pointing out how it is better than the current model. Hook 'em on the idea of Permaculture and then ( maybe later) point out the reason's it would be better as an accepted model versus the current one. Nobody likes to be put into a position where they are  defending an accepted idea right  off the bat.

You can't plant a seed without carefully preparing the soil.

I avoid any buzzwords (like permaculture) or kookie protest-fodder stuff that might cause people to write off perfectly sound ideas as flaky leftie woo-woo nutjob blather.

Instead, I present a very conservative approach, appealing to history and tradition: I am trying to grow food and build fertile soil using methods that are in line with what my grandparents and great-grandparents did. They started out with no coin in their pockets but heads full of knowledge, and built successful farms and fed huge families with time-honoured techniques that worked. When you look at how fragile and unstable our supply chains are, for chemical fertilizer and fuel and transportation, maybe they were smarter than we are. We can learn from them.

And instead of watching people shut the door, I watch it swing open -- often sharing memories as children about raiding granny's garden and orchard and raspberries.  

Robert Ray wrote:I  like to get a non confrontational positive conversation started  ...

Yes, exactly! I can tell you it's even more effective when their kids are running around conducting a massive raid on our garden ... :-)

While I feel that spreading permaculture is very important, people resist things or ideas that they know nothing about.

I feel that planting small seeds is more worthwhile than planting a large seed.

I would not try to convince someone that big ag is bad instead I would explain how I grew this or that without using that chemical stuff.

Or how well this or that grew using compost or compost tea.

My way of spreading permaculture is to try to help folks on the forum.

Sensible advice, Anne. And very permie! Slow and small steps. Minor interventions to a system have cascading and multiplying effects and are less disruptive than wholesale changes.

Think of it like restoring weedy, overgrazed pasture. Throw some seeds around, run the livestock through without chewing all down, let natural processes do their thing.

It is nearly impossible to convince someone that their livelihood is unethical, even if it is hurting them as much as anyone else. The only way in I can see is through their own self interest, but it is still tricky.  The way to get crucified is pointing out how someone is contradicting their own ethics/morality.