Germ Theory or Virus Skeptics

I am not sure what it is called but between my wife and I, we have bumped into the idea that "viruses do not exist" more frequently. One of the ladies I give a ride to the Azure standard pickup sometimes was trying to explain it to me. I was reading the link for this post yesterday and the idea was in that article or another on that site. https://permies.com/wiki/376311/Alpha-gal

So the lady that rides with us sometimes was the first time it has been brought up in person. One pickup ride she had her daughter and granddaughter coming to town to stay with her the next day. On the next pickup ride she told me they were sick and she got sick after a few days of them being there. She does not believe in viruses so she said it was due to staying up late with her daughter and getting up early and drinking coffee which she only does occasionally.

So when I look into this more some options are the environment you are in and even some sort of sympathy response. Alright so in this ladies case I can see how she could say those things about less sleep and such and that make the idea plausible in her mind. One person household or even if it was 2, the #2 may have been up late also.

Here is my issue and maybe someone can point me to some further reading on the subject or confirm my observations so I have more information to go off of. We have a family of 8 and homeschool. When our kids play with neighbor kids, sometimes one of our kids gets sick 2 or 3 days later, then another, then another and on through the 8 people it goes. If we have a nursing age baby, sometimes the baby and my wife do not get the sickness due to the amazing things that happen with antibodies and such with breastfeeding.

I have observed this phenomenon over the course of the last 10 years with the addition of kids. When I look into (googled) that specific scenario, one thing to blame is the environment. I suppose if that were true, we should randomly and spontaneously get sick. We don't. Another is the sympathy response, which I can say for myself and in my conscience, my reaction is not that. I doubt the kids would respond that way either, there more likely to tear one another from limb to limb

Anybody have any thoughts on this to share or resources that would specifically handle my observations from our household?

There was a time when Doctors didn't wash their hands between patients. Many patients got sicker.

Then someone figured out that there were microscopic organisms and some of them seemed to be linked to illnesses.

Doctors were forced to wash their hands between patients, and fewer patients (particularly mothers with newborns just delivered by those doctors who didn't really qualify as "being sick" to start with) got sick/sicker.

So do these people believe "viruses" don't exist, or that "microbes" don't exist? Pond water and a simple microscope will demonstrate that there are small things, capable of reproducing, that the human eye can't see. Many of them cohabit the human body and our gut digestion counts on them being there and doing their job.

Viruses are a bit weird. They can't reproduce without a host, they are much smaller again than most bacteria, and too small to be seen under a light microscope.

Atoms are also too small to see. Do the "viruses don't exist" people, also believe that atoms don't exist?

Some people believe things that I don't believe. Some of those belief/non-belief things aren't going to hurt me (I believe the earth is more or less round, but it won't hurt me if someone else believes it is flat). I am very willing to live and let live. Unfortunately, some things that some people believe in, despite what I would call reasonable evidence to the contrary, could end up hurting me. Personally, if people believe viruses don't exist and aren't willing to respect my opinion that they do, I would do my best to find different people to hang around with.

Yeah, Jay, there are probably a lot of groups and ideas in-between but the opposite end of the spectrum from viruses do exist are groups who do not think they exist. I have only read a little bit about it but some reading I did clearly stated viruses do not exist.

Maybe there’s some confusion in that viruses are always present and oftentimes we can do things that make us more vulnerable to them, or more resistant. But yes, being around someone who travelled by plane recently is a relatively reliable way of getting sick.

It seems like there is some big money in dividing people against each other (e.g. during Covid, recent virus scares). Taking one snippet of (what I consider) truth (environmental factors contribute to our health) or another (viruses exist and are contagious) and then pitting the two against each other is an efficient way of exhausting people of the energy they could be using to overcome the current system which is crazy but also very profitable to some—and build a better world instead.

M Ljin wrote:It seems like there is some big money in dividing people against each other (e.g. during Covid, recent virus scares). Taking one snippet of (what I consider) truth (environmental factors contribute to our health) or another (viruses exist and are contagious) and then pitting the two against each other is an efficient way of exhausting people of the energy they could be using to overcome the current system which is crazy but also very profitable to some—and build a better world instead.

That makes a lot of sense. So many things are lifted out of their context.

For me, it is a genuine information seeking desire. Its a new concept to me and I have my observations so I am trying to understand it in light of my observations but to also understand the ideas in general. When the lady from the pickup was telling me a few things about it, I had no idea what to say. My goal isn't to prove her wrong or right, just to dialog a little if it comes up again.

I wouldn't worry about trying to change her mind.

My observation/belief is that because I have a very social job (running a convenience store), I am exposed to low levels of viruses from local and international customers all the time. However I rarely get sick. I think my immune system is primed so fights off the viruses before they get a hold, and is stronger for it**. People who don't get out much are more likely to catch something when they do. I hear that my customers with children get sick after the children go back to school - they have all picked up new viruses on holiday and then pass it around. It used to be a thing to hold a bit of a party with minor childhood illnesses so as to 'get it over with'. I'm not sure that's altogether a good idea though, as even minor diseases can sometimes have severe consequences....
I'm not sure why your family seem to get bugs sequentially Jackson, or whether it is better to come down with it all at once, just that I believe socialising more is better for most people for a number of reasons.



**Ha ha! Now I'm bound to come down sick!

Jackson Bradley wrote: ...For me, it is a genuine information seeking desire. Its a new concept to me and I have my observations so I am trying to understand it in light of my observations but to also understand the ideas in general.  

These two documents about the history of "germ theory" (and the resistance many people had to the concept) may be of interest to you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory_of_disease

https://www.museumofhealthcare.ca/blog/discovering-diseases-the-beginnings-of-germ-theory-and-preventative-precautions

The modern version aside, the archeological studies I've been doing the last couple of years, are suggesting that despite not having optical microscopes, let alone, electron microscopes, our very ancient, pre-history ancestors seemed able to operate on people without them dying of infection, suggesting that they had used observations (such as you have done with your family) to determine how to prevent diseases and infections from spreading.

Keeping an open mind is more of a struggle than we give it credit for!

As an aside, apart from the genuinely appalling taste, I find that a few drops of Oil of Oregano in a half teaspoon of water, held in my mouth for a minute and then swallowed, helped me chase off a number of colds I've been exposed to. I suspect it's one of those techniques that work for a sub-group of humans. My husband won't touch the stuff.

Jay Angler wrote:My husband won't touch the stuff.

Thank you for the links. I read through them and they were helpful.

Yeah, when we started getting into herbalism and all that I tried the oregano under my tongue and I can't hardly stand the smell of it after that. I mainly use mulberry tincture now.

The germ theory stuff is interesting. I also find it interesting in light of reading the old testament. There is a lot of prescriptive regulation around cleanliness, quarantine, waste management, etc. I find it interesting we had pockets of culture following things like that and then you have folks dumping their waste right out into the street.

I read "Dissolving Illusions" a while back and the author went into depth on the lack of sanitation in many areas of world at the time of different outbreaks. It is hard to believe there were not more people pushing for better sanitation but then again, if you grow up doing things that way and everyone else does the same, it would be accepted unless you like to question things.

Nancy Reading wrote:
I'm not sure why your family seem to get bugs sequentially Jackson, or whether it is better to come down with it all at once, just that I believe socialising more is better for most people for a number of reasons.

There is somewhat of a discernable pattern to it. Typically the 2 youngest kids are with my wife most of the time and the 4 oldest are with me, more or less aside from homeschool time and family reading time. My wife is very gifted at nurture when it comes to sickness and maybe it just trends that women in general are that way and that would make sense. I say that to say whoever gets sick will end up with my wife doctoring them and that will typically expose the other 2 youngest due to them typically being with my wife most of the day.

So it'll usually go from 1 person to a group of 2 or 3 then back to the remaining ones. I normally get whatever it is last if I get it. This happens between 1 and 3 times a year I would suppose. We are not hermits but I work remotely and we are together 24/7 and mostly stay at our homestead and work around here.

We get some occasional one off things that may be allergy related because only one person will be affected for a short period of time. We all are kinda holding our breath when that happens.