Food forest ideas for a steep hill?

Hello friends!

Forgive me, I'm new here. I have a super steep hill that's currently covered in weeds that I would like to turn into a little food forest, but I'm having trouble knowing how to get started. I'm in zone 7a and have naturally sandy soil. Some of the weeds that have taken over are Canada Thistle, Burdock, and Mugwort. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!!

Steep sandy slopes are actually brilliant for fruit trees once you get them established. The drainage means roots won't sit in water, which most fruit trees hate. I'd start with some nitrogen fixers to stabilise things and build soil, something like autumn olive or goumi if you're zone 7a. Then slot fruit trees in between once you've got some organic matter building up. For the weeds, I wouldn't fight them all at once. Sheet mulch sections as you go, cardboard and wood chips, and plant into those. Trying to clear the whole hill first is a recipe for erosion on a steep slope. The burdock actually has deep taproots that are breaking up your sandy subsoil, so it's doing some work for you even if it looks like chaos.

Welcome to permies Kasey!

I think I need to play 20 questions:

1. "super steep" - any idea what the angle is? Steep enough that working on it isn't very safe, or that disturbance could cause a landslide?

2. Which way does it face - as in south or south-east etc.

3. About what size? Length and width. This doesn't need to be precise.

4. What sort of rainfall pattern?

5. Are there any specific foods you want to have?

6. Time frame: do you need food now, or can you start by saving seeds from grocery store food, pushing them into the soil, and seeing what happens? If the soil is unstable, planting seeds rather than whole trees is likely to get you a better, deeper root pattern.

OK, only 6 questions to help us to give you ideas that might be workable!

Kasey Greenwood wrote:Hello friends!

Forgive me, I'm new here. I have a super steep hill that's currently covered in weeds that I would like to turn into a little food forest, but I'm having trouble knowing how to get started. I'm in zone 7a and have naturally sandy soil. Some of the weeds that have taken over are Canada Thistle, Burdock, and Mugwort. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!!

Welcome! That sounds like a great project. I’d start small by improving the soil, adding organic matter and mulch, and working with the slope instead of fighting it. Build it in stages, and don’t worry about tackling every weed at once. A food forest can take shape over time.

How steep, are you calling steep?

I have a 30 ft or so section of 30° to 40° slope. I made tiers detailed here. Spoiler, it's done with wattles. These break down faster than I expected. If you choose tiers, it may be best for you to make the walls of tiers with a more durable product.

Tiers do make it easier to not trip and roll down the 'hill'. At 59, I am now thinking on making steps of some sort.between my sets of tiers. Before I can't do any earth moving myself.

Excellent questions!

1. Anywhere from 20-40 degrees depending on where I measure. Working on it is definitely not safe. There are 2 small terraces already existing with Japanese maples that were put there by the previous owners of the property. The roots of all the weeds are also doing a great job right now of keeping the hill in place.

2. It's south facing

3. It's about 56' W by 32' H

4. I'm not sure how to answer this question but I'm in northern NJ if that helps?

5. Fruit trees would be ideal but really I just want to make use of what otherwise feels like useless land

6. There's no timeline on this, just something I would like to get started on if I can

Jay Angler wrote:Welcome to permies Kasey!

I think I need to play 20 questions:

1. "super steep" - any idea what the angle is? Steep enough that working on it isn't very safe, or that disturbance could cause a landslide?

2. Which way does it face - as in south or south-east etc.

3. About what size? Length and width. This doesn't need to be precise.

4. What sort of rainfall pattern?

5. Are there any specific foods you want to have?

6. Time frame: do you need food now, or can you start by saving seeds from grocery store food, pushing them into the soil, and seeing what happens? If the soil is unstable, planting seeds rather than whole trees is likely to get you a better, deeper root pattern.

OK, only 6 questions to help us to give you ideas that might be workable!

Thank you to everyone's replies so far. I would love to have fruit growing on this property ideally, I just don't really know how to get started

Kasey Greenwood wrote: 1. Anywhere from 20-40 degrees depending on where I measure. Working on it is definitely not safe.

That supports my suggestion of starting fruit trees from seed. For that you need to just poke a hole, not actually do much digging. Also, by starting from seed, the baby trees should hopefully only grow as fast as the quality of the soil and water availability will allow. There is plenty of evidence that irrigation is not a good way to train trees to be independent!
https://permies.com/t/56523/Fruit-Trees-Seed

2. It's south facing

Coupled with your location, might you have issues with fruit trees blooming, then getting hit by a late frost? The slope will help prevent that. Having a good variety of trees so even if you loose some fruit, you don't loose it all, seems like a plan I would try.  

3. It's about 56' W by 32'

That is not a huge area - the footprint of many oversized houses! If you could get a copy of this book, Grow a Little Fruit Tree https://permies.com/wiki/260271/Grow-Fruit-Tree-Ann-Ralph it would be worth reading, assuming you don't have a deer problem. The idea of having to carry a ladder and set it up on that slope to pick fruit or care for fruit trees doesn't appeal to me. If deer are an issue, you will have to put temporary fencing around your seeds, or the deer will eat everything except the weeds.

4. Rainfall: I have a long summer drought. If I wanted to grow from seed, I'd either have to plant 5 times my end requirements, or find some way to water them a bit as babies until they're established, and then wean them off the water gradually. There are many factors, but you suggest sandy soil, so if you don't have rain regularly, you may have high losses without irrigation. As you build the organic matter and quality of your soil, you may be able to wean the trees off water. I have done that with most of my fruit trees, except when the drought is much worse than usual. I still have 2 with more sun and poorer soil that sometimes get a bit of help.
Another way to help this issue, is to dig a hole about a foot deep shaped to catch water coming down the slope and slow it down so that it sinks into the hole, rather than just running down the slope. There's no point trying to water something if the water just runs off. What that would exactly look like on your slope would be hard to describe in words, but think little pockets or mini-swales. Using punky wood to support terraces, so the wood absorbs water and releases it slowly, might also work. Just don't try to hold so much water that you destabilize the slope.

5. Fruit trees would be ideal but really I just want to make use of what otherwise feels like useless land

With the slope, also consider berry bushes? Larger fruit is faster to pick. Start considering what types of fruit you enjoy eating and compare that with what seems to grow well in your area. (Sorry - New Jersey is *very* far from my ecosystem, but there are permies who would know more what grows there.) I would consider some less common fruit that would grow there, rather than just what is carried in the typical grocery store.

6. There's no timeline on this, just something I would like to get started on if I can.

Certainly getting started with "weeds" that germinate at this time of year and will build soil seems like a good idea. Chopping the top 1/3 to 1/2 half of the tops of the weeds and letting it just drop every week or two would likely help the soil.
Deciding on potential seeds could also be done. If you decide to buy some seed, late fall is often a good time as things may sell out in the spring, and fall is often the better time to put seeds in so they germinate on their own schedule.

Hopefully, that gives you some more ideas to work with.