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Rus Williams wrote:
I must admit I was shocked to discover that transportation in the US is only 3% of emissions. (I would have put that in the 15% or higher range if i'd have had to have guessed).
Eric Toensmeier wrote: And transportation is a small fraction of food system emissions, only 3 percent in the United States.
Christopher L. Weber and H. Scott Matthews wrote: We find that although food is transported long distances in general (1640 km delivery and 6760 km life-cycle supply chain on average) the GHG emissions associated with food are dominated by the production phase, contributing 83% of the average U.S. household’s 8.1 t CO2e/yr footprint for food consumption. Transportation as a whole represents only 11% of life-cycle GHG emissions, and final delivery from producer to retail contributes only 4%. ... Thus, we suggest that dietary shift can be a more effective means of lowering an average household’s food-related climate footprint than “buying local.” Shifting less than one day per week’s worth of calories from red meat and dairy products to chicken, fish, eggs, or a vegetable-based diet achieves more GHG reduction than buying all locally sourced food. - my emphasis
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Agroecological systems, once established (which can take several years), often yield better than industrial agriculture. Many studies show that agroecological farms have reduced emissions and sequester more carbon than industrial agriculture.
R Ranson wrote:
Another thing that came up in this chapter is about how carbon sequestration works - aka, how plants grow.
Plants use the atmospheric carbon in their photosynthesis to build new ... um... plant. The roots are especially carbon dense.
Which tickled something in the back of my mind, and I only now remembered what it is. Irrigation reduces root growth, often drastically. So irrigation decreases carbon sequestration?
Seeking a long-term partner to establish forest garden. Keen to find that person and happy to just make some friends. http://www.permies.com/t/50938/singles/Male-Edinburgh-Scotland-seeks-soulmate
Aaron Martz wrote:This is obvious, but it occurred to me that carbon sequestration is a cycle, as all of nature is. So is there no "end-point" that we are trying to reach? Is this dependent upon the purpose of the land use? Is the goal to get most landscapes into a stable climax ecosystem? (and with that idea, can anyone explain if there is truly a stable climax ecosystem?) Or is this goal only for reforestation/conservation areas?
Aaron Martz wrote:
Along with this, Toensmeier's sentence struck me as missing some importance: "although yield is a critical factor in selecting carbon farming techniques, so are social implications, economics, ecosystem services, and of course carbon sequestration capacity" (pg. 21). I know he highlighted the damaging effects of industrial agriculture in general, but he only used one paragraph to highlight that topic. I think this paragraph would have benefited by a brief history on how prioritizing yield has driven choices that are ecologically damaging. Anybody else think this? Maybe in terms of a large scale plan for carbon sequestration Toensmeier is aiming taking a more pragmatic view and not looking to alienate too many readers.
Aaron Martz wrote:
For the topic of above ground and below ground biomass, are there techniques or methods anyone is aware of to incorporate this dead and fallen above ground biomass into the soil? Maybe he will touch on that in later chapters.
Aaron Martz wrote:
On the topic that roots exude about 200 chemicals to feed the microbe life in the soil around them: this seems to me as a good reason to emphasize no-till agriculture and disturbing the soil as little as possible. Also, to restore degraded soils with beneficial microbes. Does anyone know of research showing that microbe life in soils contributes directly to carbon sequestration? Maybe increased microbe life will hasten the productive sequestration time of any given piece of land? Or is there a negative aspect to increased microbe life that I am not aware of?
Seeking a long-term partner to establish forest garden. Keen to find that person and happy to just make some friends. http://www.permies.com/t/50938/singles/Male-Edinburgh-Scotland-seeks-soulmate
Neil Layton wrote:
No, the concept of the climax ecosystem has been pretty much superseded. The theoretical end-point in terms of carbon farming would be the point at which any given soil saturates with carbon.
Neil Layton wrote:
Equivocal yes. I equivocate because we somehow need to work out how to feed ten billion people by 2050 or not much later, preferably without worsening the worst extinction event in 65 million years. This is not a trivial problem.
Neil Layton wrote:
Mulching is the obvious one.
Neil Layton wrote:
I'd agree on the first bit. In terms of microbes, there is a case for introduction of species where these may have been wiped out by, for example, conventional farming or when you are trying to change the habitat from, for example, annuals to woodland. Plant exudates and mycorrhizal functions will then take over the soil ecology with minimal additional microbial input. Some bacteria and some fungi accelerate mineral weathering, and carbon is involved in some of these processes, but that weathering is mostly down to the actions of carbonic acid. Bacteria, fungi and other microbes do not, in general, sequester carbon in their own right. Most of that comes from plants through photosynthesis. A healthy soil microbiota will support faster plant growth, more photosynthesis and more rapid carbon sequestration by that route.
I'm not aware of research quantifying this.
Aaron Martz wrote:
Thank you for this. This idea is still very prevalent in permaculture. Is it still useful as a phrase for describing a general pattern? Or would it be better to get rid of 'climax ecosystem' totally and refer to ecosystems at that stage as 'mature'?
Aaron Martz wrote:
Neil Layton wrote:
Equivocal yes. I equivocate because we somehow need to work out how to feed ten billion people by 2050 or not much later, preferably without worsening the worst extinction event in 65 million years. This is not a trivial problem.
Great point. The enthusiasm that vague ideas that fit into the permaculture mold can feed the world just by being permaculture related is prevalent as well. Toensmeier touches on the difficulties by describing the productivity loss that even 2 degrees C increase will result in, let alone 4 or 6 C.
Aaron Martz wrote:
Neil Layton wrote:
Mulching is the obvious one.
Toensmeier says that ~2/3 of the carbon from dead above-ground biomass will enter the atmosphere with the normal carbon cycle. Is there a way to incorporate this carbon into the soil so that less will be released into the atmosphere?
Aaron Martz wrote:
So is the idea that an initial culture in the area should be enough, if the environment is right for them, to populate the area from there on out?
Seeking a long-term partner to establish forest garden. Keen to find that person and happy to just make some friends. http://www.permies.com/t/50938/singles/Male-Edinburgh-Scotland-seeks-soulmate
Neil Layton wrote:
Aaron Martz wrote:
Neil Layton wrote:
Equivocal yes. I equivocate because we somehow need to work out how to feed ten billion people by 2050 or not much later, preferably without worsening the worst extinction event in 65 million years. This is not a trivial problem.
Great point. The enthusiasm that vague ideas that fit into the permaculture mold can feed the world just by being permaculture related is prevalent as well. Toensmeier touches on the difficulties by describing the productivity loss that even 2 degrees C increase will result in, let alone 4 or 6 C.
I'm actually not convinced it can even be done, with permaculture or without it. Most analyses use present trends and extrapolate. Once you take into account climate disruption, rates of cropland loss, ecosystem collapse, the possibility of tipping points - which could happen at any time - I think we are in deep trouble. I'm also aware of the possibility that perennial agriculture could be a trap. With abrupt climate change it may be impossible to adapt quickly enough to replace crops that can't cope with the new climate.
I'm not known for being the most optimistic of people, it's true, but I think one possible value of "deep trouble" is extinction. When I first started hillwalking I learned about the concept of the incident pit (I believe it's a concept borrowed from diving). A few small incidents narrow your safety margin. These may be innocuous to begin with: a squall may slightly delay you on your route. You try to make up time, so you twist your ankle, so you skip lunch, which impairs judgement, so you get lost, then another squall makes you wet and cold at a time of day when it's harder to get warm, so your judgement is further impaired so you sprain your ankle so you can't get off the hill so you die of hypothermia around 2am. Any one of these problems would be a non-issue, but one after another kills you.
I suspect we as a species may be falling into an incident pit. Localised crop failures and the odd big storm or drought we can cope with. It's annoying and may kill thousands, even millions of people, but it doesn't threaten us as a species. Enough droughts, enough storms, enough countries imposing export bans to protect their own population, enough water conflicts, enough sea-level rise and so on and the whole thing could turn very, very bad for everybody. I think it's plausible that a reliance on perennials may be a misjudgment born of a realisation of a problem we're not equipped to solve. It might be the far end of the probability tail, but I don't want to discount it.
Aaron Martz wrote:we need is not just Toensmeier's approach, but a whole slew of ideas
Idle dreamer
I don't like that guy. The tiny ad agrees with me.
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