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Steve Nicolini
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Does anyone have a dripline on the side of their house (or trailer)?  I rent, and the landlord is not going to pay for gutters.  Neither am I.  Has anyone caught rainwater dripping off the length of their roof line? 

An even better question, does anyone have their own water collection, storage, and purification system set up? 

It seems to me that this is an important issue in creating a PERMAculture site.  Mollison's chapter on water is amazing. 
 
Leah Sattler
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I think you could catch a substantial amount of water just with collectors positioned well. Although I don't know anyone that collects without gutters. I would watch while it rains and find the spots that the water naturally comes off the roof. most homes don't have perfectly level roofs and some areas get more run off than others. you might check the price of gutters, it might be worth it. they are pretty cheap. I bet you could even get free ones if you asked around a bit. maybe some contractor would give you the old ones when someone upgraded to the fancy no clean ones or something. put a note out on freecycle that you want gutters and/or an ad on craigslist. you might be surprised.
 
Steve Nicolini
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Thanks Leah, I'll search for free gutters.

My next question is: are there any ways of doing a water sample to see what kind of neat matter is floating in our rain water?

We have a big forest to the east of our property.  Do those trees evapotranspire any good stuff into the atmosphere which might fall on our land as rain?
 
Susan Monroe
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Location: Western WA
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Steve,

If your landlord doesn't want you to put up gutters, or the place where you would normally put them is kind of rotted out and won't hold the braces, you might just set your FreeCycle/CraigsList gutters (uncapped at the ends) between two garbage cans, positioned directly under the fall of water, letting the water fall into the gutters and run into the garbage cans.  You will be surprised how fast they fill up.

I believe that trees only transpire pure water.  Any contamination seems to come from dust/debris on the leaves or needles, and from the air.  I was reading somewhere (in a rainwater collection book, I think) that rainwater is 20 times less contaminated than the cleanest water on the ground.

For water testing, contact your local Cooperative Extension Service (see  http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/ ; ) and tell them what you want and ask who does it.  A basic bacterial test usually costs about $8 around here, but ask questions and tell them what you want to know.  Most people who take water in just want a coliform count (or whatever it's called) on their wells, and aren't interested in nitrates or other forms of contamination.

I highly recommend Brad Lancaster's 3-volume set of books Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond (I don't think Vol 3 is out yet).  Lots of info.

You can also google 'rainwater harvesting' and get lots of info.  I think Texas universities have a lot of info out there.

Sue
 
Leah Sattler
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sue is right. the evaporation and condensation cycle is simply natural distillation. virus,bacteria, minerals etc... cannot be evaporated and therefore wouldn't not be transfered via the cycle. the contaminents in rainwater come from when the water is condensed and picks up stuff on the way down. the best way to purify water in an emergency is through distilation. although distilled water isn't neccesarilygood for you. in comparison to well water it is "dead". with nothing more than h2o, no minerals. whether or not distilled water is good for you is a risk assessment situation. if the risk of serious bacterial or viral contamination is high or you are being forced to drink sea water than distilled water is good. If you drink it everyday for fun you will leach your body of minerals. hmm just like sody pop.
 
Steve Nicolini
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That is an excellent idea with the garbage cans.  After I posted yesterday, my brand new roommate walked in.  I learned that his job is installing gutters!  He is working for a woman getting new gutters, and she has a huge pile of the old ones.  My fingers are crossed.

Has anyone heard of using limestone or marble in the bottom of a tank to purify water?  That is different than distillation, right?  Would that be more beneficial than distillation? 
 
Susan Monroe
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The bag of limestone doesn't purify anything, it just reduces the acidity, very helpful if you have an acid rainfall problem. 

It is said that slightly alkaline water is better for your body and heart than acidic water.

Sue
 
john smith
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Location: western u.s.
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I have a question about removing sediment (and bacteria) from rainwater from the roof.

I'm putting up gutters over the patio and catching rainwater in a barrel in the meantime.  The water had a TDS of 57 with the first rain a few weeks ago, 35 from the second rain, with the barrel emptied after each, and now 13 after the third!!!  This is really good quality drinking water, except for the sediment, and which might contain some bacteria.  The roof is composition shingle, so there's a little shingle taste in the water, which must be suspended particulates.

My thought is that a sediment filter would get out most of the suspended particulates, though probably not the bacteria.  Even so I think it would be much better than tap water in a pinch.

My setup will be 16 1/2 feet of gutter, emptying into the barrel, with drainlines going to a garden.  If possible I would like to use some of this water for drinking, as a change from the reverse osmosis system.  I'm interested to see anyone's ideas for ways to help purify the rainwater, perhaps as it is coming into or through the line from the roof, as there will be some pressure there, or else in a line from the bottom of the barrel.  My idea is to hook up a 1 micron sediment and a couple of carbon block filters.

As I'm typing this I realize that I've got an older RO system sitting around and I could just hook up the intake line from the barrel to the system, without the membrane.  Depending on the pressure I could hook up a membrane to it too!  Does anyone have an idea what the pressure would be at the bottom of a 35-45 gallon barrel?  Thanks
 
                    
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I also have a rainwater catchment question -- has anyone heard of rainwater harvesting from a thatch roof? Would it be drinkable?
 
Matt Ferrall
Posts: 555
Location: Western WA,usda zone 6/7,80inches of rain,250feet elevation
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I ,personally,think rain from a thatched roof would be grand.I have heard that a painted metal roof is good(paint is enamel/stable),that galvinized is not so good(zinc )and I`m scared to think what might be in composite asphalt roofing.I use black used food grade plastic barrels with the top cut off for easy cleaning.I have read that long ocean trips in the old days involved water from peat bogs because the water was more acidic and less likely to promote algee growth.I have wondered about the health benefits of drinking water off a cedar roof as cedar is anti bacterial
 
Len Ovens
pollinator
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Mt.goat wrote:
I have read that long ocean trips in the old days involved water from peat bogs because the water was more acidic and less likely to promote algee growth.I have wondered about the health benefits of drinking water off a cedar roof as cedar is anti bacterial


A friend of mine who lived in a trailer park told me that the reason for the mud pit in the play ground was that they had to remove all the cedar mulch. It seems the children came home with red, swollen feet. None of them had reported slivers either. I don't think I would want cedar juice in my gut. However, I am not sure if there would be enough cedar juice in the water to be undrinkable... maybe not enough to keep algae at bay either. The biggest thing algae needs is light, so store the water in a dark place and there will be no algae. A sand filter will keep the bacteria balanced in a healthy way. You really don't want sterile water... bacteria is good, toxins are not.

Sourdough starter does not go moldy even after months using the same dish to keep it in while feeding it once in a while. In fact what decides which yeasts and bacteria are in there is what ones can survive the low ph level (acidity). pickling works on the same principle.
 
john smith
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Location: western u.s.
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johnlvs2run wrote:
This is really good quality drinking water, except for the sediment, and which might contain some bacteria.  The roof is composition shingle, so there's a little shingle taste in the water, which must be suspended particulates.


For clarification, the 13 tds (total dissolved solids) is great drinking water quality, considering no filtration at all.  The roof shingles, bird crap etc is the issue.  The water does taste like the roof, not good at all.  It's the UNdissolved solids that I'd like to remove, including all the harmful bacteria. 

Len, that's a good idea about fermented foods, but there'd need to be a lot of kimchi juice to change that large a quantity of water, and there's nothing to digest , so the good bacteria would probably die. 

Sediment and carbon filters would help, though they don't remove all the harmful bacteria.  There are some alkaline water filters on Ebay that might neutralize the bacteria.  Has anyone tried one of these?  What I'd like is a system to pour the water into, to get about a gallon of drinking water for each day.
 
Ardilla Esch
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Location: Northern New Mexico, Zone 5b
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There is an alternative to gutters no one has mentioned yet...  You could dig french drains beneath the dripline of the roof that drain to planted mulch basins.

However, by the time you dug the drains you will probably wish you had installed gutters instead.  But if gutters are no-go, the drains will work.  It's just harder work to install.
 
john smith
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Location: western u.s.
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Ardilla wrote:
ou could dig french drains beneath the dripline of the roof that drain to planted mulch basins.


Yes the french drains are great.  I'm digging them with a mattock and hoe, pulling the top soil up, pulling the clay down into berms, making a huge cup in the middle.  It's great exercise.  The gutters are only for above the patio and front door, the water going to areas between berms and swales.
 
Len Ovens
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johnlvs2run wrote:
Len, that's a good idea about fermented foods, but there'd need to be a lot of kimchi juice to change that large a quantity of water, and there's nothing to digest , so the good bacteria would probably die. 


I wasn't suggesting to use a fermented food so much as pointing out the difference between cedar and fermented foods... why one is good but the other not so

Having said that, try looking up sand filter or slow sand filter... according to this site:
http://tilz.tearfund.org/Publications/Footsteps+31-40/Footsteps+35/The+household+slow+sand+filter.htm
The sand grows algae which feeds on bacteria and gets rid of it that way. It also traps sediment... I am not so sure about the hydrocarbons from the shingles though. The only way to know is through testing, Algae eats some strange things that are harmful to us... maybe they like tar too. The biggest consideration there is age of the roof. A new roof will put a lot more tar into your water than an old one... an old one might start leaking and require replacement.

Here is one that says it addresses shingle tar:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14719220/Bucket-Water-Filter-Homebrew-Clean-water
Using 5 gallon plastic buckets. I have seen other plans using these too.
 
john smith
Posts: 70
Location: western u.s.
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Len wrote:
Here is one that says it addresses shingle tar:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14719220/Bucket-Water-Filter-Homebrew-Clean-water
Using 5 gallon plastic buckets. I have seen other plans using these too.


Len,
This is awesome, thank you for the helpful information.
The shingle tar scribd document is not showing up.

[url=http://tilz.tearfund.org/publications/footsteps+61-70/footsteps+67/biosand+filters.htm]concrete sand filter
[url=http://www.biosandfilter.org/biosandfilter/index.php/item/299]sand filter cleaning method

[url=http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/BucketFilter.pdf]bucket filter instructions PDF
[url=http://www.alpharubicon.com/kids/homemadeberkeydaire.htm]home made gravity filter (berkey type)
[url=http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Berkey-Water-Purifiier/step2/Top-bucket-modifications/?images#images]indestructables design showing bottom connections
[url=http://www.aqsolutions.org/images/2008/05/bucket-filter.pdf]charcoal gravel sand bucket filter for rooftop harvested rainwater PDF

Gravity filtration systems have a much longer contact time with the media, vs water pressure systems with only a few seconds.  The longer contact time results in greater removal rates of contaminants and pathogens.  I think the same would be the case with regular sediment and carbon filters.
 
tel jetson
steward
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I built a couple of slow sand filters in plastic barrels this year.  they work really well.  all of our water runs through one.  I think that once one gets going, it could easily handle whatever your roof could throw at it.  the only trouble you might have with a slow sand filter is that they work best with constant flow, which you may not have from rain water.  if flow stops, the organisms involved in filtering suffer for lack of nutrients and oxygen.  easy to build though, and effective if used correctly.
 
john smith
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Location: western u.s.
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Here's an idea for a cannister rainwater filter.  Let me know your suggestions.

screen > settling > take water from middle of barrel (perhaps 2nd barrel)
three stage filter > sediment > carbon block > ceramic (berkey etc) > unpressurized tank

The filters can be connected with 3 standard size RO housings, taken apart and arranged in a triangle, perhaps upside down, with right-angle fittings, with 1/4 inch tubing looped down from one right angle fitting and back up to the next.

There can be a 1/4 ball valve to turn the water on and off before it goes into the housings, which can be set in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket, or just left connected together in a row.  In the latter cause the ball value would be inserted into the side of the barrel, with the housings on the outside of the barrel, either inside of a bucket or not. 

The water from the housings can go to an unpressurized tank, which can be a 5 gallon bucket, with a float valve to turn the housings on and off automatically as the water is used.

This works similarly to an RO system except 1) works by gravity instead of high water pressure, and 2) has a ceramic cannister instead of an RO membrane.  Rainwater already has a low TDS, so there is no reason for an RO membrane in this case.  It would be better if the ceramic filter had a carbon filter before it instead of granulated carbon in the middle, but I think a system like this would work well.  What do you think?



 
tel jetson
steward
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sounds way too complicated and expensive to me.  if it were me wanting to drink this water, I would use a diverter for the first couple gallons of water to avoid debris that washes off the roof, then a large tank that slowly feeds to a slow sand filter.  should be very cheap to build (on the order of $20 if you build the diverter yourself) and very effective.  but that's just me.
 
john smith
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Location: western u.s.
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1 micron sediment filter $2 in bulk
1 micron carbon block filter $7 in bulk - each set should last for a year
I've got 5 old housings just laying around, and have most of the fittings with the housings.

Total cost ~ $20 not including the ceramic filter which is around $40.

Do you happen to have photos of your sand filters and what you put into them?
I've seen some designs with granulated carbon in the middle, which can get quite pricey.
 
tel jetson
steward
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well, there you go.  shows what I know.  sounded pretty fancy and expensive to me, but I guess not.

I've got photographs of the finished filters, but I didn't take any while I was filling them up.  pretty easy to describe, though:

built the internal plumbing first, then put about two inches of 3/8"-1" round rock in the bottom.  maybe an inch of pea gravel on top of that.  then two inches of coarse sand on top of that.  filled to two inches below the output pipe with fine sand.

I used the 3/8"-1" round rock just because I had a pile of it around.  not really necessary.  the pea gravel and coarse sand I bought in 50-lb bags for a few bucks each.  the fine sand I dug out of the ground for the first filter, and got a load from the local ready-mix plant for the second filter.  both work fine.  built these in 50-gallon plastic barrels.

I haven't had the water tested, but the only problem I was dealing with was a large amount of iron and manganese from well water, and those are both dramatically reduced.  the literature I've read suggests that slow sand filters will easily filter out an awful lot of stuff, though.  it's such an elegant biological solution that really appeals to me over more technological options.
 
john smith
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Location: western u.s.
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Tel, thank you for that information.  I like the sand filter idea the best.
Did you get river sand, to make sure it doesn't contain salt?  I'm wary of commercial sand, as it often has additives. 

Where did you get the 50g barrels?  I've only one barrel at this point, and would like to get food grade for the rest.  Hopefully I can find them for a reasonable price.

Links on the left at slowsandfilter.org lead to various images and descriptions for building slow sand filters.

I'm looking into the cost of covering 1/4 of the roof with metal, for better rainwater production.  If anyone has experience or ideas regarding metal roofs, let me know.

 
john smith
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Location: western u.s.
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I called GE regarding their product Silicone 1 Clear for kitchen and bath, which says 100% Silicone on the tube.  I was planning to use this supposedly inert product on the gutters, and for patching the barrels. 

I asked how this product could be 100% silicon and safe since it contained methylthriacetoxysilane.  They replied that Silicone (being a trade name) contains other elements besides silicon.  I said well what about this methylthriacetoxysilane.  That does not sound safe to me.  The reply was "that is Silicone" and is perfectly safe (chemically).  The rep said SiliconE would be fine for the gutters, but aquarium chalk would be better for underwater use, only because the SiliconE might break down under water.  I since have looked this product up, obtained the MSDS report, and found this product is NOT SAFE at all.

EMERGENCY OVERVIEW
WARNING!  May be harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin.  Irritating to eyes, respiratory system and skin.  May cause central nervous system depression.  There are a number of POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS listed.

COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
HAZARDOUS
Petroleum Distillates ............ 10-30% by weight
Methylthriacetoxysilane .......... 1-5%

NON-HAZARDOUS -?
Treated Filler ......................... 5-10%
Dimethylpolysiloxane ............. 60-100%

It is very strange they consider this product of theirs to be safe!!

I will be returning it to the store.
 
          
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"This page discusses water supply and treatment in emergency situations, and other situations where resources are limited, such as poor, small or remote communities, and communities following a principle of simple living"

http://www.appropedia.org/Choosing_water_supply_and_purification_methods
 
John Morelli
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Location: Southern California
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I was just thinking about this today! I'm in the same situation where I rent and I'm pretty sure my owner/property management co won't put in rain gutters given the way they've responded (or didn't) to other things in the past.

I don't care. I'm going to do it anyway. Without asking. They say asking forgiveness is easier than asking permission and they probably won't even notice anyway; They've paid so little attention to us the past after all and I'm not going to let a resource as valuable as harvestable water slip through my fingers for too much longer.

My goal is to get them as cheap as possible (thanks for the freecylce/craigslist ideas!) and have them drain into a container or two made for storing water. I mostly only want this stuff to water my garden with and cut down on my water bill so I'm not too concerned with how clean it stays.

I'm thinking of elevating the container(s) with either cinder blocks or some kind of wood structure, THEN I can have some kind of vining plant grow UP the structure that elevates my water storage container and in this way I'll make it "prettier," AND create vertical growing space that would not otherwise have been there.

In the event that I want or need to use it to drink I'll pre-filter it to get any large debris out and then run it through a Berkey system (though I'm in California where Berkey cannot ship so I'm still working out how to get my hands on one of those...)
 
john smith
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Location: western u.s.
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I'd check your water bill, and see if that would make any difference.

Here the difference would be small.

What they do is charge $60 a month, before you use any water at all!  It's basically an illegal property tax, for owning or living in the property.  Then if you use 1 unit of water a month, 748 gallons or one hundred cubic feet, the charge is $3 for that.  So you can use 25 gallons a day, for $3 a month.

It's like if you went to get a gallon of gas, and they charged you $63, but if you got 2 gallons of gas it would be $66, and so on.  And if you got no gas, it would still be $60 just for living there.  I have talked with them about this and it's like talking to a rock, because they are cleaning up charging for nothing. 

They are getting $7,200 every 10 years for nothing.  Why change?

I would like for as many people in the community to know about this as possible, in the remote chance the rate would become equitable.  However in the meantime I am doing this for me, and because it's the way that I wish to live, regardless of them or anyone else.  Also the city water is contaminated, with fluoride and whatever other noxious chemicals they wish to dump into it.
 
Brenda Groth
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my son installed french drains buried in gravel trenches around his entire house and they connect to a ditch down slope from his house that leads to a catchment pond..he has also put french drain in low areas of the rear yard that used to be wet, and has dried it out..it worked well, but I wouldn't do it for a rental.

we also have french drain leading from our small porch gutter to our pond..underground
 
ronie dee
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Johnzilla wrote:
I was just thinking about this today! I'm in the same situation where I rent and I'm pretty sure my owner/property management co won't put in rain gutters given the way they've responded (or didn't) to other things in the past.

I don't care. I'm going to do it anyway. Without asking. They say asking forgiveness is easier than asking permission and they probably won't even notice anyway; They've paid so little attention to us the past after all and I'm not going to let a resource as valuable as harvestable water slip through my fingers for too much longer.


If they should ask as to why you are doing what you do, I've found that alternate explanation sometimes is best.
For instance, instead of saying you are using the water to save on water bill, you could say that water free falling from the roof seems to be undermining the footing of the house and causing wet areas that might have led to mold under the home. [(And you've side tracked the water to run over your artistic sculpture of a water wheel (that just so happens to catch the water in a barrel and land the water in yer garden.)]

When building a fence in an area that fences are frowned upon, build a sculpture (fence) that is guaranteed under your freedom of expression. (Don't build a barbwire fence that looks just like any other fence... Get creative and build a beautiful fence/sculpture that also is a trellis for tomatoes or Humming Bird vines.)
 
John Morelli
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Location: Southern California
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Yeah I really am doing this mostly because I want to do something instead of just twiddling my thumbs and wishing I could "when I own my own place" and I've definitely got a couple of darn good reasons why it should be done anyway

  • [li]Rainwater not properly channeled away from a home can (as mentioned) cause water damage to the side of a home and the roof itself if things become waterlogged[/li]
    And
    [li]Rainwater runoff from the roof wears away at the soil around a home and can end up ruining foundations[/li]

  • I literally is already wearing ditches into the soil around parts of my home. Not good.
     
    rose macaskie
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    Cnn had a program about an indian from India teaching women to make and run solar powered devices, so they could run them in their villages bringing light to poor villages.
     i supppose the advantage of teaching women is that they have to go back to their village and look after their children and husbands they cant say, "right, now i am an expert I am off to make fortune in the world" or are less likely to do so than a indepent young man is and even young men with families do walk off with the excuse that they can earn more money else where in hte nearest city where they need elect¡ricians who know how to put up soalr energy kits.  it is probably the shame attached to any activity thta can be called one of finding a new man that keeps women at home as well as a greater attachment to children oor a feeling that the childeren need her company and cacre not just the money she can bring in. .
     The comment of the desigen¡r of this project is that if the village has light from its own solar contraptoins it will be independent of government electicity and free of paying the government for its electricity though there is a charge for the material and the work of the trained engineer. Also they simply provide light to places that don't have it.
     If you whatch Indian videos on water harvesting ,they use the same arguement about the advantage of independence for those who are harvesting the watere from their roofs. The school that use their own water  from their roof and villagers that uses the water from their roofs  free themselves from dependence on the local authorities and engineers. Seems they too are in for less government. Maybe the government sevices are ineficient.

     If they can build a big village tank to collect the water from their roofs or if each household can collect water from their roof it  reduces walking to and from wells that is an occupation that i presume stops women from being able to talk to their children or help them with their homework, and as i believe that the mind is like a computer to some extent, though this is an idea that those who like to think they are marvelouse because they were born marvelouse dont like , the more people putting as much information as possible into the minds of children the better. People who despise women dont think give much importancce to how much time women get to comunicate with there youung. the same is true of groups who would like to be the only ones who ideas enter the heads of the young.    rose macaskie.
     
    Ron McCorkle
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    I have been drinking my rainwater for about a year. I use a standard, inexpensive whole house pre filter, then a Berkey http://cart.berkeyfilters.com/bigberkey.aspx?gclid=CPewqYnD56gCFcTd4AodyhZtEw

    3 gallon ceramic filter. These filters are excellent at removing all heavy metals, pathogens, bacteria and fungi.
    http://www.berkeyfilters.com/watertest.htm They are gravity fed and stainless steel. I'm super glad I purchased one.



    I'm putting a metal roof on my house in a few years and will keep on using

    this set up. I only use the Berkey for drinking and cooking. I use the whole house filter only for cleaning. It's a system that works well for me.



    Ron McCorkle

    The Urbiculture Foundation

    ron@urbiculture.org

    540 982 8289
     
    rose macaskie
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    Urbiculture, they say that taking all the metals out of your water can be bad for peoples health.
      I tell about the sand filter because their is a special interest in talking about systems that could be used in Haiti say, rather than where people in the west who can afford a good filter live but it is usefull to know about filters here in the west too. agri rose macaskie
     
    Ron McCorkle
    Posts: 11
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    I hear your concern about the essential minerals. I understand that it doesn't take all of the metals out, just the heaviest, which are mostly out from the distillation process of the rain cycle, anyway. My understanding is that the essential minerals, the lighter ones, are still in there. It seemed very good to me. I guess there are cheaper ways, like the ceramic filter elements in a 5 gallon pail. Stainless is nice, too!
     
                                
    Posts: 42
    Location: Central Missouri
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    >oes anyone have an idea what the pressure would be at the bottom of a 35-45 gallon barrel?

    IIRC, water pressure is 1psi/~2 ft of head.  So a barrel of water would only have ~2psi at the bottom, when full. RO filters need 35-40 psi to operate, so you would need a 75-80' tall tank to supply the required pressure.  There are inexpensive RV water pumps which can supply this pressure. 

    >the only trouble you might have with a slow sand filter is that they work best with constant flow, which you may not have from rain water. 

    All I have read about slow-sand filters shows the raw water being stored and filtered as used.  This would guarantee a daily flow through the filter, as opposed to filtering all of your water as it was collected and then storing it.

    >distilled water isn't neccesarilygood for you... If you drink it everyday for fun you will leach your body of minerals.

    Is this a fact, that distilled or RO water will actually leach minerals from you body?  Or does it just not *provide* additional minerals?  I'd appreciate a reference Leah, as I like he purity of my RO filtered water.
     
    Jan Sebastian Dunkelheit
    Posts: 201
    Location: Germany/Cologne - Finland/Savonlinna
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    There is a cheap way to stop particles from entering the water catchment barrel. Don't position the barrel directly under the gutter! Yes. Waste the first gallons of rainwater.

    First let some rain wash the particles from the roof away. After a couple of minutes with normal rain intensity your roof is clean. Then position the barrel under the gutter. When you had a long dry season your roof is packed with bird poop, heavy metals, etc, etc. Water is a great dissolver. Don't catch the first rain after a long dry season.

    Even better is a catchment barrel with a plug. No moving around needed. There is no cheaper way to reduce the amount of particles in your catchment system.
     
                  
    Posts: 52
    Location: Australia
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    You guys sure love to over complicate parts that dont need to.

    129,00 litres per annum collected off the colourbonded tin roof into a ferro cement main tank. A hose pipe connector and tap at the bottom to flush sediment out periodically. Electric pump to pressure supply both floors to the house. No filters or paranoia as get a water test if worried before over engineering everything.

    63,000 litres off the 4 bay parking shed. This is for the car wash built on one side. Thinking of running the main garden soaker lines off the tank as its always overflowing.

    37,000 litres off the main workshed near the paddocks for livestock supplementation.

    28,000 off the tin roof on the gold miners cottage into the well just for giggles.

    600,000 litres in the top dam for freshwater crayfish, ducks and geese.

    5,000,000 litres in the first bottom dam for livestock, fish and freshwater crayfish.

    7,800,000 litres in the second bottom dam for same purpose as the first.

    And a bore for emergency supply, never used, motor seized from a life of non use so theres a job reminder for myself.

    In 10 years of the most severe drought on record the property has never ran out of water.

    Focus more on getting the basic systems up and running instead of turning the job into rocket science. And more attention to what roofing materials to not collect drinking water off of like clays or cement tiles with toxic glazes or cover sprays. Or those that harbour dirt, wood smoke pollutants and the like.

    For me a metal powder coated (colourbond) roof is it for consumption purposes.
     
    Tyler Ludens
    pollinator
    Posts: 9741
    Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
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    PeterD wrote:

    In 10 years of the most severe drought on record the property has never ran out of water.


    How much rain do you get in drought?

     
                                
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    I'd like something permanent.. that doesn't need to be moved. The problem is.. well.. a four letter word. SNOW. In the late fall/winter/early spring, the snow comes off of my metal roof and destroys anything I may have ...er.. neglected to put away.

    I don't have gutters, the snow and ice would tear them down in the winter.

    Then there is another four letter word problem that I have with rainwater catchment. Raven Sh-- . Yup. They decorate my roof, I don't want it in my drinking water.

    I've considered this: digging a trench underneath the dripline and buring drainpipe (the kind with holes in it), in gravel or rock. The Drain pipe would carry the water to some sort of water storage. The water storage could incorporate "purifiers" plants.. etc. BUT.. again the problem is a four letter word... COLD. It would all work well during warm weather, but in cold...

     
                  
    Posts: 52
    Location: Australia
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    H Ludi Tyler wrote:
    How much rain do you get in drought?


    Here is 2009 for example:

    Remember that all months/climates are reversed, January is summer (December, January, and February to be exact). So to make it more difficult on survival, the rain incidence is winter when crops are dormant and not growing and spring/summer when you need it you will not have rain to grow your food.

    Jan 12.0 millimetres (previous year was 0.0 millimetres!)
    Feb 11.8 millimetres
    Mar 25.2 millimetres
    Apr 9.4 millimetres
    May 40.4 millimetres
    Jun 38.4 millimetres
    Jul 70.8 millimetres
    Aug 54.8 millimetres
    Sep 17.2 millimetres
    Oct 5.8 millimetres
    Nov 54.0 millimetres
    Dec 59.8 millimetres

    TOTAL ANNUM 399.6 millimetres 800-850 is the lowest amount needed to do any sort of farming activity)

    That's 15.7 inches per year for those who are still on the ancient measuring system. Or 3.2 inches of rain in summer. Its not nice seeing your entire garden effort wiped out in one weekend of record summer heat but them's the breaks.

    Cheers,
    PeterD
     
                  
    Posts: 52
    Location: Australia
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    Feral wrote:
    I'd like something permanent.. that doesn't need to be moved. The problem is.. well.. a four letter word. SNOW. In the late fall/winter/early spring, the snow comes off of my metal roof and destroys anything I may have ...er.. neglected to put away.

    I don't have gutters, the snow and ice would tear them down in the winter.

    Then there is another four letter word problem that I have with rainwater catchment. Raven Sh-- . Yup. They decorate my roof, I don't want it in my drinking water.

    I've considered this: digging a trench underneath the dripline and buring drainpipe (the kind with holes in it), in gravel or rock. The Drain pipe would carry the water to some sort of water storage. The water storage could incorporate "purifiers" plants.. etc. BUT.. again the problem is a four letter word... COLD. It would all work well during warm weather, but in cold...




    We have ice, freezing pipes, snow an hour-and-half down the road but not on my property. We have crow poo, rat poo, eagle poo, mouse poo, you-name-it poo on the roof but we understand that the bacteria living in the tanks will take care of the excess nitrates and the water is the sweetest and cleanest tasting compared to anything from a metropolitan water tap. We don't treat nature like we are separate from it but work with it and the over riding attitude is to just get on with it and get the job done.

    Cheers,
    PeterD
     
    Acetylsalicylic acid is aspirin. This could be handy too:
    Video of all the permaculture design course and appropriate technology course (about 177 hours)
    https://permies.com/wiki/65386/paul-wheaton/digital-market/Video-PDC-ATC-hours-HD
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