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benefits of rainfall collection

 
Cécile Stelzer Johnson
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Posts: 1315
Location: zone 4b, sandy, Continental D
376
posted 2 years ago
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My apologies for cross-threading, John.
Harvesting rainwater, God's water, is alleged normally to be pollutant free. That is not always the case, however.
Harvesting rainwater is indeed supremely important, especially in areas of drought. Sorry that I let my frustration take over. Since we have corn, potatoes and Dairy as our main products, we often get sprayed on.
Growing corn, potatoes and the grain to feed dairy cattle is fertilizer/ spraying intensive, as you may know in an irrigated, annual row crop farming system. We've had some success in making one farmer plant solar panels so far. [Other farmers lament the loss of good arable land to a solar farm, of course.]
For our hives, I have asked them to get a heads up on what they spray and when, [and they do], but then, I have no ability to stop them. It may fall on my roof as well as on my crops, and the rainwater I can harvest has so far only been used in the garden. A diverter on all down pipes, that I could use to lose the first flush, is a possibility.
As you say, these underground tanks are expensive but if what I can collect is dubious water, even though we are in a water-rich zone, we are in trouble.
I see that other rainwater harvesters are thinking of ways to remove the poop and critters that might soil God's water.
The diverter sounds like a better and better [and cheaper] idea if I want to use this water for drinking.
In zone 4 WI, the tank would have to be buried [we can't use a rain barrel in winter, of course].
How about pulling the drinking water out of the tank when the grid goes down? Hmmm. Lots to think about.

$10.00 is a donation. $1,000 is an investment, $1,000,000 is a purchase.

 
John C Daley
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You seem to be creating logs in you path to ensure nothing will work.
I realise farming over spray is a major issue, and in terms of rainfall collection I am baffled about what to do to create good result with water at this stage.

Other farmers lament the loss of good arable land to a solar farm, of course

I am with the farmers on this point, its wasting a great resource.
Have you moved into this farm area, not understanding what goes on in them?
In Australia I have seen city folk buy a small block in farm zones and complain about farming operations, cows mooing etc and actually shut the operations down.
I hope this does not apply to your goodself.
Bird poop and dust are all handled with diverters and large volume tanks.
If you have a basement tanks can be installed there to prevent freezing, I have helped a few people create such items, it is very economical.
The chemicals are the obvious issue. I will follow up the issue. https://permies.com/t/173913/Farming-overspray-rainfall-collection
Water can be hand pumped or use a backup battery system, even a generator which may be good for lighting as well!

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Cécile Stelzer Johnson
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John C Daley wrote:
Have you moved into this farm area, not understanding what goes on in them?
In Australia I have seen city folk buy a small block in farm zones and complain about farming operations, cows mooing etc and actually shut the operations down.
I hope this does not apply to your goodself.



When I moved in this farm area 40 yrs ago, to do farming, we didn't have CAFOs. But they became permitted. And yes, I too deplore the loss of good arable land to a solar array, although something else could be grown there that likes shade more. Without some private wells going bad with 44ppm of nitrates [too high to install revers osmosis], we would not complain.
But thanks for the tip about putting a tank in my basement and installing a hand pump. That helps.
Here, it is airports that get this unfair treatment [Moving in, then wanting the airport to move].

$10.00 is a donation. $1,000 is an investment, $1,000,000 is a purchase.

 
John C Daley
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Cecile, What are CAFOs please?

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Cécile Stelzer Johnson
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John C Daley wrote:Cecile, What are CAFOs please?




Sorry. I assumed you had them too. Lucky you if you don't have them!
They stand for Confined Animal Feeding Operations./ These unfortunate animals spend their entire life confined [they never go outside at all]. The dairy cows are fertilized/ impregnated artificially on a "rape rack" [the industry's own expression]. They live about 2 years, give or take, depending on their performance, then get culled as they become exhausted and can't give enough milk any more to justify the cost of their food/ medications.
The owners can keep a small footprint [basically the size of the holding buildings] and the animal handlers do not need any special skills, [No Cowboys here, not herding dogs either] so their care does not cost much except for veterinary services, because when animals are so confined, any contagious disease would go through a herd like wild fire. They are constantly on preventative medications [and may cause penicillin to become less effective for humans].
In Wisconsin, the cows' manure is kept in  large lagoons and pits that get emptied over the fields in the spring [*after* the long winter] and in the Fall [*before* the long winter]. Growing their crops is done often in function of when to empty the pits. In the spring, the crops are too small to take full advantage of the manure. In the fall, the fields are covered with manure *after* the crops are off the fields. The manure is concentrated and can run off their land during a heavy rain, ruining their neighbors' private wells and ground water.
CAFOS tend to be heavily subsidized [because they are large operations, they risk more] and when they cause devastating spills in our streams and lakes, they do not have enough money to remedy, so taxpayers are asked to pony up the price of the cleanup to keep the operation afloat.
They are also responsible for many small family farms going under because between the preferential treatment [subsidies and "socializing" the cost of the operation] they are in a better position to make donations to those who will legislate in favor of their operation, their "business". [Sorry, this is really cross threaded, but the question is important and deserved an answer]. [I did not see a CAFO thread and you asked me in this thread, so...]

$10.00 is a donation. $1,000 is an investment, $1,000,000 is a purchase.

 
John C Daley
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Here is an interesting webpage
http://geopathfinder.com/Rainwater-Harvesting.html
From which I copied this note
"As a township officer in Minnesota, Larisa attended a County Township Officer's meeting where a rainwater researcher gave a presentation. She obtained rain sampling data from the State of Minnesota that proved two things we had always suspected:
Rainwater is far "softer" (fewer dissolved solids) than groundwater
It is cleaner (fewer chemicals) than surface or groundwater aquifers by a factor of 10 to 1000
Rainwater is even more clean when collected in very early spring and late fall"

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Cécile Stelzer Johnson
pollinator
Posts: 1315
Location: zone 4b, sandy, Continental D
376
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John C Daley wrote:Here is an interesting webpage
http://geopathfinder.com/Rainwater-Harvesting.html
From which I copied this note
"As a township officer in Minnesota, Larisa attended a County Township Officer's meeting where a rainwater researcher gave a presentation. She obtained rain sampling data from the State of Minnesota that proved two things we had always suspected:
Rainwater is far "softer" (fewer dissolved solids) than groundwater
It is cleaner (fewer chemicals) than surface or groundwater aquifers by a factor of 10 to 1000
Rainwater is even more clean when collected in very early spring and late fall"




Well done, John! We've always known that rainwater was better than groundwater most of the time. Certainly better for the plants, but also for any creature drinking it, be it veggies, critters or humans.
Your system takes care of debris in an ingenious way. Here, we have a number of private wells that are polluted by agricultural runoffs of large operations.  As the groundwater officer for my town, I'd love to get more information on this as some folks have wells that cannot  be corrected even with an osmosis system. Digging another well on the same parcel is awfully expensive and there is no certainly that they would not tap in the same vitiated water. I also love that folks using rainwater have no need whatsoever for expensive "softeners" that add an enormous amount of salt to groundwater! Would you have a rough idea of how much money you spent on this great system?
I like also that it is scalable. Most folks have no idea of how much rainwater they could harvest from a simple roof, if they put their mind to it. I have several rain barrels but before your post, I wasn't thinking about drinking the stuff [I didn't install a debris eliminating system: my water is at 1.9 for nitrates and it is abundant, so there is no need for me to sink [expensive?] tanks in the ground, but some folks could use the information].
It just collects in the barrel and I use it for veggies, chickens, and soon ducks. Wonderful post!

$10.00 is a donation. $1,000 is an investment, $1,000,000 is a purchase.

 
John C Daley
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The secret in Australia is the 20,000L tank.
It holds the water for a long time and allows settlement of any fine particles also.
Tank - $A2900 use 2 inch ball valves
In line leaf traps  adjacent to guttering each $A50
First flush filter - just after leaf trap $A50 each
fine screen on tank $A30
Good pump $A200-800
Thats about all the special gear, its much better value than any well if you have the rain.
I live in Bendigo, Victoria, Australia average rainfall 450mm,
I store 60,000L around the house filled from house and outbuildings and another 120,000L off a huge shed.
You just need to match the area of any rooves with the volume of water you need.
Sometimes people around here buy a tanker load if its dry, I choose to have more tanks.

In some agricultural areas you need to be aware of crop dusting etc and chemical sprays which maybe used.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Cécile Stelzer Johnson
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Posts: 1315
Location: zone 4b, sandy, Continental D
376
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John C Daley wrote:The secret in Australia is the 20,000L tank.
It holds the water for a long time and allows settlement of any fine particles also.
Tank - $A2900 use 2 inch ball valves
In line leaf traps  adjacent to guttering each $A50
First flush filter - just after leaf trap $A50 each
fine screen on tank $A30
Good pump $A200-800
Thats about all the special gear, its much better value than any well if you have the rain.
I live in Bendigo, Victoria, Australia average rainfall 450mm,
I store 60,000L around the house filled from house and outbuildings and another 120,000L off a huge shed.
You just need to match the area of any rooves with the volume of water you need.
Sometimes people around here buy a tanker load if its dry, I choose to have more tanks.
In some agricultural areas you need to be aware of crop dusting etc and chemical sprays which maybe used.




Thank you so much for the precision, John. With just over 17" of precipitation a year, I can see why you would try hard to keep rainwater. In Central WI, I get 36-60" a year, depending. In this situation, I would build rooves over most of my property too!  Whatever you need to spend to have drinkable water is well worth it!
[and yes, you are correct; except for polluting spaying, rain water is a lot better than what you can get from the ground].
so the numbers are, at today's rate:
$A2900 = $2011.02
$A50= $34.67
$A30= $20.8
and for the pump: $A200-800 comes to about $138-$554.76
Thanks again for the very instructive post.

$10.00 is a donation. $1,000 is an investment, $1,000,000 is a purchase.

 
John C Daley
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Be careful of currency conversions.
I helped somebody in Texas recently. I ordered all the items in Austin for them having discussed what was available, the tanks were certainly closer to $US2900.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Cécile Stelzer Johnson
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John C Daley wrote:Be careful of currency conversions.
I helped somebody in Texas recently. I ordered all the items in Austin for them having discussed what was available, the tanks were certainly closer to $US2900.



I was only going for a ballpark figure as I had no freaking idea how an Australian dollar compares: We know that the value of currency changes day to day. Also, the folks that change your money can sometime take a bigger 'pinch' in passing for the conversion service.
When I lived in Paris, I shopped for the best conversion shop and that didn't always work: Some took more than others. In converting your money, they are rendering a service, and that is paid for on top of the official conversion, so yeah, there is that. Plus, in the end, what I end up getting is dependent on what is available locally or my ability to get it delivered at a reasonable price, so...
I do love your system: with a transfer pump, water is always available, and with my groundwater slooowly fouling up, I want to make sure I never have a problem, so thanks again for the explanations on how you make it work.

$10.00 is a donation. $1,000 is an investment, $1,000,000 is a purchase.

 
John C Daley
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From Kim Goodwin of this site;
This is a very good page to look at, it gives you answers to usage and tank sizes.
http://rainharvestcalculator.com/Calculator

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Cécile Stelzer Johnson
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John C Daley wrote:From Kim Goodwin of this site;
This is a very good page to look at, it gives you answers to usage and tank sizes.
http://rainharvestcalculator.com/Calculator




Thanks: very useful and user friendly!

$10.00 is a donation. $1,000 is an investment, $1,000,000 is a purchase.

 
John C Daley
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From a Brad Lancaster site discussing Rainwater, ts worthwhile reading.
https://www.harvestingrainwater.com/resource/materials-and-suppliers-2/water-tanks-cisterns/

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
John C Daley
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This is a good reference from an Australian Government paper
your_private_drinking_water_supply.pdf

It talks about various issues including the fact that in Victoria treatment is usually not needed for drinking water unless you have specific needs.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
John C Daley
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This English company has many parts that will help with rainwater collection.
Here is a link to tank maintenance tank maintence manual - downlable

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
John C Daley
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CARTING WATER, TRY THESE;
https://enduramaxx.co.uk/tanks/accessories-tanks-fittings/baffle-balls/
"The ‘Baffle Ball System’ improves the stability of vehicles when transporting liquids by road.
In the main this refers to liquid tankers or bowsers with horizontal tanks, constructed of any type of material, but is also applicable for any vehicle fitted with a tank used to transport liquids.
Baffle balls come in two sizes and are supplied in two halves which require clipping together.
When inserted into a tank the balls greatly reduce sloshing, particularly when cornering or on unstable ground, thereby enhancing the safety, stability and ride of the vehicle.
Baffle balls are also suitable for use within boat fuel and water tanks."

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Sid Deshotel
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I have trouble believing anything that comes from California. Mercury seeping into their water from overseas?...

itsmesrd

 
John C Daley
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Sid, can you explain more about your comment please?

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
John C Daley
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This is an interesting video about building your own water tank with earth bags.
http://greendreamproject.org/
http://greendreamproject.org

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
John C Daley
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I have come across a few new ideas about filtering the rainwater off the roof.
graf-optimax-pro-filter/
Rainwater Harvesting Filter Optimax-Pro.
This is a new filter for the Graf Carat and Rondus tanks and it’s self-cleaning.
- The filter combines an extremely low height offset of just 165mm, filter mesh of 0.35 mm and a water yield of over 95%
- It is very low in maintenance due to  its self-cleaning construction.
There are three layers to the filter;
- 1) First is the stainless steel fine filter with a mesh of only 0.35mm (350 microns or 0.01 inches) with a very smooth upper Graf Optimax rainwater filter with rough surface which aids the self cleaning process,
- 2) a synthetic screen surface with a diamond pattern
-  3)  the collector surface for micro particles.
The filter can be visually checked when closed through the transparent cover, or the cover and filter can be lifted as required for further cleaning of the collector surface if required.
The rainwater filter can also be equipped with the Opticlean cleaning unit if desired, it consists of a  high-pressure rinsing bar that washes the filter surfaces themselves  so they remain consistently clean, with the washing as needed.

And a video of an Australian product available worldwide

GF-340037_4.jpg
https://www.rainwaterharvesting.co.uk/product/graf-optimax-pro-filter/
graf-optimax-pro-filter with rinsing bar

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
John C Daley
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RAINFALL COLLECTION PERMISSIONS MAP OF USA

https://www.energy.gov/eere/femp/rainwater-harvesting-regulations-map

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Mike Ruggeri
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Great thread! I've been researching rainwater harvesting, and finding local information is not easy as it doesn't seem in my area it is very common for residential use. There are quite a few suppliers and contractors in Central Texas, but few in N TX. Water is a major issue, particularly over the summer months, as rapid population growth is straining the supply and infrastructure of reservoirs. The projections for demand outstrip supply over the next two decades by quite a margin.

We just finished building a shop building with metal roof, and I'm planning on installing a system to collect rainwater (we get around 40 inches annually, and typically 3 months of the year are complete drought). Does anyone know of best way to calculate how much is a reasonable amount to store, to use mainly for irrigation in the garden, yard, etc? Not yet planning on connecting to the house or shop buildings, as county/city restrictions make that quite difficult since we're connected to city water.
 
John C Daley
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In your case it may be guess work, based on experience
A starting point would be to store the volume used over that 3 month dry period.
Some questions;
- could the stored water be used in toilets/
- 'shop building' what type of structure is that, I am in Australia?
- can you define "to use mainly for irrigation in the garden, yard, etc?"
- size to be irrigated
- yard, what would you do with water there?
- 'etc' can this be defined?
- area of roof please?
I would work it out like this;
Annual rainfall [ 40 inches ] per month based on 9 months actual rain = approx 3.5 inches per month
Area of roof assume 20 x 20 ft + 400 sq ft.
Rainfall missing for 3 months = 400 x 3x 3.5 [ .291 ft ]
                                                   = 400 x 3 x.291 = 350 cubic ft
cub ft = 28 Litres Total missing rainfall may be 9800L
                                                         or  2739 US gallons.
That is what I would consider before I have any consumption figures. You may find  5000Gal. tank is better value so that may be better to purchase.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Mike Ruggeri
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Thanks for the details, John. Since we are on a municipal water supply, they are picky about using rainwater for plumbing that is also connected to that supply, the concern is bacterial contamination. This would require separation of the systems. I'm not ready to make that leap, with permits, costs of the plumbing, etc. We could use rainwater as backup for the house by hand-carrying it in, of course.

I guess what we call a shop you might call a shed? Basically a large garage building. Part of it is finished out with living space, but 2/3 of it is garage with cars, workbenches, tools, equipment. The footprint is 2400 sq ft total, and we could capture as much of the water from that steel roof as budget allows. The roof has a 4:12 pitch, so capturing just half of it would be possible from the gutter on one side only.

Since we just acquired this house, we haven't yet built out the yard and gardens, that will start soon. We're on one acre, and it is basically a sloped rectangle, with the back end of the property sitting about 10-15 feet below the street side of the property. We'll be putting in vegetable gardens as well as flowering beds, and currently have about a half-dozen (smaller) trees in the front and side yards and behind the house. The gardens will comprise at most 1/4 acre. Another 1/2 acre (trees, grass, and around the foundation of the buildings) will need some watering as well in the dry summer months.

Your math works out with what I was thinking, that we'd need at least a 5,000 gallon tank, bare minimum, in order to accommodate our needs.
 
John C Daley
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Glad to help Mike.
Your roof is 6 times my sample so the 'lost water' maybe 2739 x 6 = 16434 US Gallons.
When you install the tank, locate it so others can be installed next to it in the future.
You may be able to separately plumb a toilet without any permits!

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Anne Miller
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Hi, Mike

Welcome to the forum.

We collected rainwater when we lived in NE Texas for our garden.

Several residences later we are still collecting rainwater to use as a backup if our well fails.

I believe our tank is 750 gallons which we purchased at Tractor Supply though they have tanks up to 3000 gallons.

Any questions you may have or help that you need to get started can be found here on the forums, just ask.

I would like to recommend the work of Brad Lancaster (you may have seen this recommended earlier):

https://permies.com/wiki/51855/Rainwater-Harvesting-Drylands-Brad-Lancaster

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

 
Mike Ruggeri
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Anne Miller wrote:Hi, Mike

Welcome to the forum.

We collected rainwater when we lived in NE Texas for our garden.

Several residences later we are still collecting rainwater to use as a backup if our well fails.

I believe our tank is 750 gallons which we purchased at Tractor Supply though they have tanks up to 3000 gallons.

Any questions you may have or help that you need to get started can be found here on the forums, just ask.

I would like to recommend the work of Brad Lancaster (you may have seen this recommended earlier):

https://permies.com/wiki/51855/Rainwater-Harvesting-Drylands-Brad-Lancaster



Thanks Anne. I found Brad Lancaster's website yesterday, I hadn't seen the Permies wiki - that's helpful. Will have to dig more into his material.
 
John C Daley
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Contrary to common opinion the collection of Rainfall for drinking water is pretty safe.
There are a few exceptions, but in those cases you may be living in a 'bad' area.
Water in 20,000l tanks has time for settlement to take place and also for oxygen to work with the surface of the water to clean it.
With first flush units, and large volume of storage compared to consumption,  many people worldwide live safely with no other treatment

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
G C Childers
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My understanding is basically every material on earth can be broken down by Soil water microbiome given time and healthy conditions. Including Radiation.

Mercury.

Do I read this right that. That given healthy soil and water we can breakdown these substances? But in unhealthy soil it may get worse. It seems that the Soil Biome with earthworms decouples the chemical compound.   Also looks like sunlight might do it to to a lesser extent.

Results and Discussion
ARTICLE SECTIONSJump To
Hg(II) Methylation and MeHg Degradation by G. bemidjiensis Bem
Results of the time-dependent Hg(II) methylation assay indicate that inorganic Hg(II) (at 25 nM) can be methylated rapidly by washed cells of G. bemidjiensis in MOPS buffer (Figure 1a). The production of MeHg increased exponentially within the first few hours and reached to a maximum of ∼1.2 nM [or ∼5% of the added Hg(II)] in 8 h. The initial methylation rate constant (within 8 h), calculated based on the first-order rate law, was 0.9 ± 0.2 h–1. The maximum amount of Hg(II) methylated is similar to that observed with washed cells of G. sulfurreducens PCA strain (5%), (5, 6) but much lower than that reported with the same G. bemidjiensis Bem in a previous study, (7) in which methylation was performed directly in an Fe(III)-based culture media and with a high cysteine concentration (500 μM).

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.6b00401


"... Verminephrobacter sp. may also play a role in the detoxification of inorganic-Hg or methyl-Hg in our earthworms. A wide range of bacteria belonging to the phyla of Firmicutes, Actinobacteria, and Proteobacteria are known to be Hg resistant [57], [58]. Bacterial resistance to Hg is mainly associated with the presence of mercury resistance (mer) operons [59]. The mercuric reductase enzyme (merA) catalyzes the conversion of Hg(II) to the volatile Hg(0). The merB enzyme degrades organic Hg compounds to the less toxic form Hg(II) [60]. However, mer genes are predominant in aerobic environments and were rarely found in obligate anaerobes [61] assuming that this mechanism is hardly important for this study. Other unknown mechanisms for Hg(II) reduction are suggested under anaerobic conditions [62], [63].

Another mechanism for microbial Hg resistance is based on the methylation of Hg(II) [64]. Methyl-Hg-chloride may diffuse through the cell membrane, and as a result the concentrations of Hg in the organisms probably decrease. However, the mechanisms which could be important in this study are not known and need to be further investigated.

In our study, the concentrations of methyl-Hg in soils at the start and after incubation did not vary significantly (p<0.05) in experiments with or without inorganic-Hg. Interestingly, in all soils treated with methyl-Hg, the concentrations of methyl-Hg decreased (initial: 0.75 mg methyl-Hg kg−1 soil dw and end: almost 0.3 mg methyl-Hg soil dw) by about 60% during the experiments (data not shown). Bacteria are able to demethylate Hg-species [60], [65], [66]. Abiotic decomposition of methyl-Hg due to photodegradation has also been reported in surface water [67]. In the abiotic experiments with sterile soil treated with methyl-Hg, the concentrations of methyl-Hg decreased by about 60%, even though the boxes were stored in the dark so that a photodegradation of methyl-Hg in soils could be excluded. Likewise, the concentrations of total-Hg in these soils did not decrease, which indicates that methyl-Hg in the soil was degraded by other factors than photodegradation.

Conclusion
We have been able to show that the gut of earthworms provides suitable conditions for the methylation of inorganic-Hg. Control experiments (abiotic; with earthworms rinsing suspension; cast) strongly supported our finding that inorganic-Hg is methylated in earthworms itself, and not by the bacteria introduced into the soils by earthworms.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0061215
 
Robin Katz
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G C Childers wrote:My understanding is basically every material on earth can be broken down by Soil water microbiome given time and healthy conditions. Including Radiation.

Mercury.

Do I read this right that. That given healthy soil and water we can breakdown these substances? But in unhealthy soil it may get worse. It seems that the Soil Biome with earthworms decouples the chemical compound.   Also looks like sunlight might do it to to a lesser extent.



The bacteria can break down mercury compounds. Unfortunately mercury and other elements can't be broken down further. Once you have mercury or any other element, it can change form (e.g. mercuric chloride, methyl mercury, etc.) but mercury is always mercury. The toxicities of various forms of mercury vary widely. Elemental mercury is not nearly as toxic as methyl mercury. That stuff is incredibly nasty in small doses. We wouldn't even keep it in our lab due to the danger.

Bacteria are known for changing the forms of various elements in the soil. This is usually a good thing for making nutrients available to plants. Converting elemental mercury to methyl mercury isn't so good. This is the form that small fish take up in the sediment in streams and lakes. Then bigger fish eat the small fish, and so on. That's why large fish such as tuna have high mercury levels. They're at the top of the food chain and the mercury has concentrated in their tissues.

We looked at technologies that might concentrate the mercury in plants to remove it from the soil, but the details showed it was really inefficient and expensive to implement. Most of the approaches we saw for heavy metals in soil are to stabilize their form so that they don't leach out into the water.
 
John C Daley
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from another topic
design-of-rainwater-harvesting-systems-in-oklahoma.html
This is helpful

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
John C Daley
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This is from another topic
It has some good points, inground 1 1/2 feet to assist with preventing freezing.
Filtration to the event that used is not necessary if you have a large volume tank.
Assuming you are catching raimwater.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Anne Miller
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I shared this on another post then saw this thread:

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

 
John C Daley
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I jsy found this on a topic.
https://www.arcsa.org/ site, talk about jumping on the bandwagon!
But if it works ok.
The American Rainwater Catchment Systems Association (ARCSA)
ARCSA’s Mission Statement
To provide resources and information on rainwater and stormwater collection to promote the advancement of rainwater conservation and to work with government at all levels in promoting rainwater and stormwater management.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
John C Daley
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This image is from S Benji and shows a good set up.
- floating outlet
- inlet pipe to reduce disturbance of silt on the base of the tank
Complete-Above-Ground-Rainwater-Collection-System-600.jpg
[Thumbnail for Complete-Above-Ground-Rainwater-Collection-System-600.jpg]

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
John C Daley
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I saw this in a group of videos about rainfall collection

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Douglas Miller
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Brad Lancaster has written several books inacluding "Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond volumes 1 an 2."  He lives in Tucson, Arizona, an area that receives 11 inches [280 mm] of annual rainfall.  He has led the City of Tucson to create city-wide rainwater harvesting programs.  His website is https://www.harvestingrainwater.com/.  He also has numerous videos if you search for Bread Lancaster Tucson on YouTube. Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcAMXm9zITg is a tour of his fascinating house including all of home-made systems that he designed and built that go well beyond rainwater harvesting.  
 
Timothy Norton
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I have been fascinated by rainwater collection systems, especially for potable water needs. I unfortunately live where cold winters and freezing temperatures are the norm so that adds an extra wrinkle to my plans.

For folks who have existing systems, how have you found the maintenance to be? Easy or perhaps require a little bit of specialized knowledge? Frequent or rarely?

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