• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • John F Dean
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Leigh Tate
  • Devaka Cooray
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Matt McSpadden
  • Jeremy VanGelder

chainsaw troubleshooting

 
Posts: 9002
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
707
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am by no means a chainsaw mechanic, but I have used chainsaws for years with very little down time due to breakage, starting problems or trouble with chains.

First a bit about saw choices. Two brands dominate the market for loggers,tree service companies and rental outfits. They are Stihl and Husquvarna also known as Husky in the U.S. These saws are dominant for good reason. Quality equipment with extensive dealer networks which have skilled technicians who are familiar with their equipment. There may be some other useful saw out there, but none come to mind.

Common starting issues. --- 1. Be sure that your saw contains plenty of properly mixed gas.

2. The saw should have a choke position. Give it up to 5 pulls, until it sparks. Some saws will flood on as little as 2 pulls, so don't do it 20 times.

3. Once the saw gives some hint that it wants to start, move it to the next throttle position. On most saws this will result in a fast idle once starting is achieved.

4. If the saw fails to start, it is probably flooded with fuel. Squeeze the throttle to full on and pull the cord several times. I have started many saws belonging to my customers simply by dealing with flooding.
If it still won't start, clean your spark plug and clean the air filter. Neglect of the air filter has to be the number 1 reason for running problems. A saw sucks air and gas according to how the carb is set up. A clogged air filter causes the saw to draw too much gas as compared to the amount of air. It's like leaving the choke partially on. Clean the air filter regularly !
Don't monkey with your carb. --- Unless you know exactly what you're doing, just leave it alone. The carb setting is seldom the problem.

If it still won't start, check the side of the machine to see if you are amongst the unwashed millions who have foolishly purchased a department store grade saw. The best solution is usually to correct that mistake.

5. Sometimes the problem lies with the spark arresting screen inside the muffler. This can clog with carbon deposits, especially on smaller saws with dirty air filters. The clogged filter causes the saw to run too rich in fuel and unburned fuel contributes to the deposits. Idling a saw constantly can contribute to carbon build up. Give it a good hard run regularly. A giant falling saw that is used for cutting twigs, will never be run full out. Use the appropriate machine for the job.

If all of this fails, take it to a qualified technician who will usually pronounce it dead or show how some little quirk caused the problem.

Photos - 1. This is the run position on my little Stihl 170. When a saw is flooded, put slider in this position and squeeze the throttle completely while pulling the starter cord. It may take a few pulls.

2. The spark arresting screen is behind this muffler face plate.

3. Always be sure to put gas and oil in the right resevoir. The only design flaw evident on my Stihl is that both the gas and oil caps are identical in size and color. It might have cost an extra dime to make one of them red.


This is the best small saw I have ever owned. For softwoods under 14 inches in diameter, there is no need to drag around a big, heavy saw. It cuts slower than my big Husqvarna does, but the light weight allows quicker movement. I deal mostly with smaller trees, brush clearing and milled lumber trimming. This nimble saw is more than adequate. A small saw that is run hard will give less trouble than a big saw that is idled too much.
Writing this with iPhone so have to submit constantly or get logged out. When you see 6 photos, I'm done.
IMAG1452.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG1452.jpg]
IMAG1451.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG1451.jpg]
IMAG1456.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG1456.jpg]
 
Dale Hodgins
Posts: 9002
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
707
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The chain --- Your chain is designed to cut wood. Keep it out of the dirt and away from rocks, nails etc. Using an appropriately sized saw reduces the chances of chain damage. Most of the trees I deal with are under 12 inches in diameter, so the limbing saw is perfect. It can be used on trees up to 30 inches, but that hasn't happened yet. If a big falling saw with a 40 inch bar were used, the cut time would be slightly less but the chances of chain damage would be far greater. Big chains sustain big damage and take longer to fix.

In my work as a demolition contractor and cutting trees in town, chains are damaged regularly. Nails are my greatest enemy. Sometimes pebbles are lodged in the wood. It's been years since the last time I allowed a saw to cut into gravel.

I always save my best chains for production work where damage is unlikely. Once a chain is sufficiency damaged, I use it for high risk functions such as trimming reclaimed lumber, brush clearing on rocky ground or falling of trees where the stumps are cut to within one inch of soil level. I have cut a few buildings completely in half, in preparation for relocation. Only the old chains are used during this process.

How to restore a badly damaged chain --- Chains for the saw pictured cost about $25. It costs $15 for a professional sharpening which usually involves grinding away half of the chain. So, I sharpen them myself. They may never cut perfectly smooth or straight again, but they will work fine for the jobs that I need done.

1. Taking down the runners. If the runners aren't dealt with, a saw will produce progressively thinner chips with each sharpening. This slows production and increases wear on the cutting edge. I like to produce chunks, not shavings. A flat file works to grind down the runners. I have heard dire warnings about increased kickback risk in doing this but in 30 years, I haven't done anything dumb enough to cause an incident. Well, other than grinding the runners down. A chain sharpened and ground will have lots of bite, and it may stall the saw if you're not careful. When this chain hits a nail in the future, it won't tend to dull every tooth. Instead, it will either come to a dead stop while ruining one tooth or it will pull the nail or both. Sometimes, I use vice grips to break off really bad teeth. A chain can still work with several missing teeth. I never try to cut really fast when dodging nails.

Photos --- 1. I usually wear a leather glove which is held over cutting edges as runners are filed.

2. Without the glove, it would be easy to damage the cutting edge.

3. After the runners (sometimes called rakers) are filed, the chain is sharpened in the usual way.

IMAG1450.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG1450.jpg]
IMAG1449.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG1449.jpg]
IMAG1447.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG1447.jpg]
 
Dale Hodgins
Posts: 9002
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
707
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
1. When cutting firewood with a good new chain, I leave it just loose enough to allow it to work properly.

2. When using a damaged chain, I leave it a little looser so that the teeth can tilt more for an aggressive bite.

IMAG1455.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG1455.jpg]
IMAG1454.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG1454.jpg]
 
Dale Hodgins
Posts: 9002
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
707
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Whenever I work in a dusty environment, I wear this mask. When chainsawing there is always risk of getting poked in the eyes and there's sawdust. This full face mask is great protection. Small branches have smacked me in the face many times while I've worn a mask. Between this and my hard hat, I'm better protected than your average weekend warrior.

I'm cutting cedar slabs with a chain that was damaged by imbedded pebbles that are common at this mill. The rakers have been filed down. Notice the good sized chips. Before I filed it, the chain produced thin shavings and dust.

If I'm cutting wood that has sand, muck or pebbles like much of the wood at this mill does, I give the surface a brisk sweep with a gloved hand before cutting. The dirtiest surface is faced toward the saw. This allows much of the crap to vibrate away harmlessly or to be blown away by the stream of saw dust. Any dirt that does contact the chain will only be struck by one tooth. If the dirty side were faced away from the operator, dirt would be drawn through the cut and each tooth strike would do more harm since the wood provides backing for the pebble. Facing the worst surface also let's you watch for hidden pebbles that may become evident as dirt is vibrated off the wood.







IMAG1458.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG1458.jpg]
IMAG1459.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG1459.jpg]
 
Posts: 211
Location: Pennsylvania
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Dale, jjust a note: I needed to replace my old saw this year and bought a Jonsered and I am very pleased with it. I have cut about 5 cords with it and it starts easy and runs great.
kent
 
Dale Hodgins
Posts: 9002
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
707
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

kent smith wrote:Dale, jjust a note: I needed to replace my old saw this year and bought a Jonsered and I am very pleased with it. I have cut about 5 cords with it and it starts easy and runs great.
kent



So far as I know, Jonsered is a subsidiary of Husqvarna. Like Ford- Mercury or GMC- Chevrolet. Parts are interchangable and both originate in Sweden. I believe Jonsered was one of the better companies absorbed and thus the good name was kept. Jonsered produced some of the first saws that could be eisily managed by one person.
 
steward
Posts: 7926
Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
351
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Having maintained a 'fleet' of outboard motors for several years, I will say that the key to reliable operations boils down to two things.

CLEAN FUEL, and CLEAN SPARK PLUGS.

Do not mix more fuel than you can use within a couple of weeks. I have seen a friend buy a new chainsaw, take it home, and fill it with last years gasoline. When it wouldn't run right, he took it back to the dealer (the next day) and was charged for a carburetor rebuild. The warranty does not cover misuse, and old gas is a misuse - not the manufacturer's fault.

Recoil starters are a common failure on many small engines. Using good practice here will more than double their life expectancy.
Before cold starting, s-l-o-w-l-y pull the cord through several compression strokes. This will 'prime' the cylinder with gasoline.
Release the cord, and gently pull it until you feel the motor is at full compression. Release the cord, and then pull any slack out of it. NOW you are ready to pull it and start the engine. On a properly tuned engine, it should start on the first, or second pull. Never "jerk" the cord, but gently pull all slack out of it before you give it a full pull.

If you live where ice gets in the gasoline, they sell a de-icer, but don't waste your money on it. The ice forms in whatever water (condensation) gets in the gas. Water is not soluble in gas or oil, but is soluble in alcohol (that is the primary ingredient in 'de-icer'). A 99¢ bottle of drugstore alcohol will do the same job as that $3-4 can of 'de-icer'.
 
Dale Hodgins
Posts: 9002
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
707
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Good practice with the rip cord also saves the hands, since sometimes the cord will pull back. I've had bad cord snap while starting outboards and large lawnmowers. Ouch!

I'm always careful to avoid getting sawdust in the gas. If I see bad floaters, I slightly overflow the fuel onto absorbent fire starter to rid the tank of debris.
 
gardener
Posts: 1292
Location: Okanogan Highlands, Washington
397
4
hugelkultur cat dog books food preservation
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

John Polk wrote:Having maintained a 'fleet' of outboard motors for several years, I will say that the key to reliable operations boils down to two things.

CLEAN FUEL, and CLEAN SPARK PLUGS.

Do not mix more fuel than you can use within a couple of weeks. I have seen a friend buy a new chainsaw, take it home, and fill it with last years gasoline. When it wouldn't run right, he took it back to the dealer (the next day) and was charged for a carburetor rebuild. The warranty does not cover misuse, and old gas is a misuse - not the manufacturer's fault.

Recoil starters are a common failure on many small engines. Using good practice here will more than double their life expectancy.
Before cold starting, s-l-o-w-l-y pull the cord through several compression strokes. This will 'prime' the cylinder with gasoline.
Release the cord, and gently pull it until you feel the motor is at full compression. Release the cord, and then pull any slack out of it. NOW you are ready to pull it and start the engine. On a properly tuned engine, it should start on the first, or second pull. Never "jerk" the cord, but gently pull all slack out of it before you give it a full pull.

If you live where ice gets in the gasoline, they sell a de-icer, but don't waste your money on it. The ice forms in whatever water (condensation) gets in the gas. Water is not soluble in gas or oil, but is soluble in alcohol (that is the primary ingredient in 'de-icer'). A 99¢ bottle of drugstore alcohol will do the same job as that $3-4 can of 'de-icer'.



All sound advice. Thanks, Dale, for getting this thread going.

The de-icer thing struck me funny, though.
If your fuel has water in it, and the water is icing up, wouldn't it be better to filter it (thus removing the water, as well as the ice)? Same principle as ice-distillation of hard cider - fresh water freezes before the alcohol or other stuff, so by removing the ice you remove the water and concentrate the 'good stuff.'
Alcohol doesn't help my car engine run better, and it seems like it would be even worse for a small engine like a chainsaw. Why dissolve the water back into the fuel, if it eventually ends up in the carburetor or slowing down the engine?
Or are you talking about needing to treat a small engine which has moisture iced up inside its workings, not just in the tank?

I do pay good money for antifreeze-grade alcohol, but not for engines. Because 'Liquid Heet' doesn't have salt contamination, I can use it for fun, colorful chemistry tricks where any tiny amount of sodium would discolor the reaction.

-Erica
 
Posts: 159
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
if your fuel is going to be around a month or two..use STA-Bil MArine...keeps the water out of the ethanol, and helps to keep the fuel from oxidizing.

Seafoam is also a good bet for keeping ethanol damage to your seals to a minimum.

That little MS170 is about the best saw made today.

Echo makes a decent little saw too..but I will stick with Stihl.
 
Posts: 123
Location: Southern IL zone 6b/7
11
3
purity forest garden foraging books
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was about to go to town to get my saw repaired. Ahhh....Thanks to this thread I no longer have to. THANKS! The unflooding trick works wonders.
 
Posts: 45
3
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
stihl ms170 wisdom If it ain't smokin, there ain't enough oil.

A few years ago, washington state "mandated" 10% ethel alcohol in motor fuel.

Most of the people I knew lost saws and weadeaters that summer. Lost a bunch of outboards too.
And why I will not buy a used 2 stroke from some one I don't know very well.

So 10% alcohol reduses the lubricating properties of the 50-to-1 oil to be more like 60-to-1.
So you buy one gallon of what you thought was gas, put the premeasured 50-to-1 little bottle in it,
and by the time the gallon is gone, the unit will not start again.
It runs great while the rings are being shaved away.
So your options are, drive the extra 20 miles to get alcohol free gas, or use the 40-to-1 oil for your 50-to-1 saw.

So if you are running a saw or weadeater and the exhaust does not smoke, you need more oil.

Clean plug, clean air filter, clean exhaust screen, and make er smoke.
 
pollinator
Posts: 1782
Location: Victoria BC
317
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator


4. If the saw fails to start, it is probably flooded with fuel. Squeeze the throttle to full on and pull the cord several times. I have started many saws belonging to my customers simply by dealing with flooding.



Thanks! Cold-starting our Stihl always needs at least 7 pulls on choke, sometimes 9... about 10% of the time I flood it, and I didn't know there was quick fix. Worked like a charm.
 
Dale Hodgins
Posts: 9002
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
707
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
When I was about 20, I walked a saw half a mile out of the bush, where a teenager showed me what to do. The problem is so common, that it should be explained by a sticker on new saws.

It's been over a year since I've started a gas powered saw. I have 4 cordless electric saws, ranging from a little 18 volt Makita to an 80 volt Greenworks with an 18 inch bar. My Stihl long reach pole saw allows me to cut branches up to 18 feet from the ground. No more pissing around with gas and ear plugs.
 
Dale Hodgins
Posts: 9002
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
707
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I still haven't started a gas saw since my last posting. So if I ever do I may have to reread my own materials remember what to do. I hope they go the way of the dinosaur, as electric saws improve.
 
Posts: 600
Location: Michigan
40
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dale Hodgins wrote:When I was about 20, I walked a saw half a mile out of the bush, where a teenager showed me what to do. The problem is so common, that it should be explained by a sticker on new saws.

It's been over a year since I've started a gas powered saw. I have 4 cordless electric saws, ranging from a little 18 volt Makita to an 80 volt Greenworks with an 18 inch bar. My Stihl long reach pole saw allows me to cut branches up to 18 feet from the ground. No more pissing around with gas and ear plugs.



Yes on electric! We finally beat the budget and aquired a greenworks 80v 18" saw and lawnmower late this season.

I am building out an off grid capable urban homestead for a client and suggested greenworks after years of yearning for a saw.... she bought 3 sets of EVERYTHING, batteries, bars, weed whackers, saws, backpack blowers mowers oh my.

As a blessing, one of her mowers came damaged. The head unit locating tabs were broken from delivery stacking and it worked fine but the head jiggled.

The owner sent for a free replacement and the company failed to send a return delivery slip. When she called greenworks said jus keep it.

She asked if i would like to have it and repair it for my use and i was stunned! It forced me to buy a saw which is way more important to us than any grass mower.

The exhaust from mowing and cutting wood always hurts my lungs and i generally use a corded electric to proscess logs within 100' of the garage, but logs are not nearly that close, about a quarter mile in the back 80 and we used a gas saw to get dead standing wood out of the tree lines.

My wife used to work at a health food store and i bought organic soy bean and canola oil for use as bar and chain lube for the last 7 years.... harder to afford now and i use vegetable oil instead as a next best to petrol oil.... in germany petrol bar lube was banned years ago after finding that the woodlots were heavily contaminated with oil from cutting. We also cook after handling the wood and use ash and chips for composting so the oil is verbotten on my ranch.

That also comes with my observation that the bar lube gets slung and aerosolized in my face while cutting! Smells like french fries when i cut now!

The noise and fumes and smelly hands and clothes are a distant memory now.... just need some domestic or high quality living wage paying manufacturers of these tools, i had a hard time justifying slave labor made artifacts as working tools and the greenworks, bosch drill motors and bit sets are the only comprimise i have made in that area, mostly do without until i can find or afford better.

The electric saw is so much more precise easier to handle and vibration free. The speed ramping under varying loads takes getting used to and i thought "great $350 bucks for this wimp saw" until i actually used it on logs instead of sticks! I have a pile of chainsaws, stihl, poulan, mcullock, craftsman the greenworks is a great performer and i find well worth the cash.
 
Until you dig a hole, plant a tree, water it and make it survive, you haven't done a thing - Wangari Maathai
permaculture and gardener gifts (stocking stuffers?)
https://permies.com/wiki/permaculture-gifts-stocking-stuffers
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic