Cross pollination in cereals

Hi all,

does anybody have a table of which cereal can cross pollinate each other?

I initially tought that at leat different genera should not cross polinate, but triticale is such a hybrid between different genera.

I am asking because i would like to growsome small scale cereals from true to seed variaties and save the seed.

R. Han wrote:Hi all,

does anybody have a table of which cereal can cross pollinate each other?

I initially tought that at least different genera should not cross polinate, but triticale is such a hybrid between different genera.

I am asking because I would like to grow some small scale cereals from true to seed variaties and save the seed.

Triticale was hard to make. You could plant Triticale and its parents Rye, and Wheat sprinkled together in the same patch and be pretty assured they would not cross again for you. In that case you were right in your initial assumption. Just think of them as three genera. There does exist Hordeum x Triticum out there but same story- cross was hard to make, won't happen again without intervention even if you plant all three together.

Wheat is another matter. All the various species of Triticum and Aegilops may hybridize even across ploidy lines though far less frequently than within. This is how wheat came to be, as different wild species were brought together in wheat fields they formed increasingly complex hybrids.

If you want isolation for sure I would pick one wheat, one rye, one barley, one triticale, one rice and so forth with as many species as you wish.

Though that said there really is no reason on the home garden scale to necessarily keep small grain varieties separate or even necessarily species or genera.

I bought a packet of purple landrace wheat and noticed it contained some barley grains. I wrote and was assured that was true to the original, the two species were always grown together. Which stands to reason, we mix barley malt into bread flour today. Historical wheat landraces were a mix not just of wheat varieties but wheat species and crop wild relatives including jointed goat grass. Methods for hand harvest makes mixing matter far less than for commercial fields.

Under optimal conditions for outcrossing small grains might get up to 30% crossing but not everyone has the right climate for that. Though I also don't think it necessarily takes huge separation to keep varieties separate of many species of small grain. I've certainly seen photos of trial grounds with hundreds of varieties grown and while they undoubtedly rouged out hybrids they didn't require massive separations and I can't imagine the seed wasn't used.

Last year, I planted a couple thousand varieties of wheat. Then I harvested what thrived for me, and what I loved. That included traits like ripening early in the season. Good production when spring planted. Plants waist high for easy harvest. Easy threshing. I figure that I harvested less than 25% of the varieties. Each year going forward, I will select for the same basic characteristics. Offspring tend to resemble their parents and grandparents, therefore the population will tend towards those traits that I value. I don't care about purity, what I care about is consistency: Plants that are highly productive and easily harvested. Some of the natural hybrids will tend towards being much more locally-adapted and more productive. They will come to dominate the population.

I'm kinda liking the idea of a multi-species landrace of small grains.

So if i want to plant Einkorn Wheat(Triticum monococcum) because of its resistence and toughness and want to keep the
seed, i should not plant any other wheat, but the other cereal species don't cross pollinate.
Ok so this is why i didn't find a table.

THank you very munch for you elaborated answer.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:Last year, I planted a couple thousand varieties of wheat.

Do you mean a couple of dozen variaties?

If you plant Einkorn it may cross a little across ploidy levels with other wheats, but probably not that much. You will probably be able to notice and Rouge (weed) out the hybrids each year or every few years. Personally I would save the seed of the hybrids separately and be excited to have them because to me that would be an awesome event and a reconnection to an important series of events in humanity's and wheat's shared history.

Joseph isn't kidding about thousands. When he trials diversity he tends to go deep.

Mr lofthouse, I know you have backed away from selling your seed but I am very interested in your tomatoes, sunchokes, and anything else you have made with wild ancestry. I would like to support your continued efforts. I live in "greater Seattle" but would be interested in getting a selection of what you have been working on, it can be a "weed" portion of sunchokes and not up to selling quality germination seeds.

The community Joseph and Julia started at https://growingmodernlandraces.thinkific.com/

Is currently doing a seed swap but seeds are due by the end of October

Aurora also check for Joseph's seeds here:

Experimental Farm Network

Giving Ground Seeds

Snake River Seed Cooperative

Wild Mountain Seeds

Seed Savers Exchange

High Ground Gardens

The Buffalo Seed Company

Resilient Seeds

Baker Creek Seeds

Miss Penn's Mountain Seeds

Hawthorn Farm Organic Seeds

Thanks William, for a detailed answer regarding where to get my seeds.

As far as I know, none of those seed companies are offering my sunroots, but I expect to dig tubers in early November, and again next spring. I usually make a post about availability on permies, and intend to  make another on my fancy new author's mailing list.