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Hello from Ohio

 
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Hello everyone, I stumbled across this forum through a recent purchase of a us stove 2007e for 75 bucks. It needed some love as it had been over fired many times. I decided if it was going to require fabrication to rework the damaged baffle, I might as well upgrade the efficiency. After much reading of prior threads I decided that secondary combustion would suffice. I have tons of junk and scrap that I like to keep around for projects. After rummaging around a bit it was seeming as if everything was to thin as the main plate although i had plenty of various sizes of pipe. I was considering a piece of stainless that i bought off the back of a scrappers truck(from a piece of restaurant equipment) when I remembered a piece leaning against the door iI had recently aquired from the demolition of a factory here in town. 3"x5"L 1/4" ~8' lentil from a door opening in a block wall. I cut off two sections of that the length of the old baffle and welded them together lengthwise staggered on a 2x4 and then notched the rear one to clear the damper. Would have cut most of the way through it if not staggered. Then  i decided to plate the end of the rear one so the height and flow rates the flame could choose would be similar. Knowing that the flame would still follow the rear path mostly and that my secondary preheat would be towards the front section I let the blocking hang 3/4" or so below the angle iron[conveniently cut from the old baffle] .  The secondary air flow is from the side of the stove directly across the front section of the baffle  via 11/2" pipe with a small divide slipped in so the air can't go directly into the smaller tubes and has to spend some time heating. I found some 3/4" dom heavy wall and went with 3 delivery sections  with roughly 50 1/16" holes.


Enough about the stove project I suppose....about me.... i hate talking about myself. My last name literally means hillbilly in german haha. Not quite literally but you know...I'll take it. Born and raised in ohio, single never married, be 41 in may. I take on far to many projects that never get completed (usually because I'm creative and always add stuff that tends to be beyond my current abilities), but hey who doesn't enjoy learning new skills!

If I had to describe my personality I suppose it would be INJF. With a little bit of leave me the Ef' alone. To describe my religianity....christian with a little bit  a something is not quite right with this place I am trapped in. Starting to question if god and the devil are one and the same and the subscribing to either side is just a ticket to get recycled back in this shithole. I no longer listen to any hellywood music or watch telievision. I'm reminded of Homer's Odyssey where the siren's are leading them to destruction. Nothing new under the sun is there?

Not much animal husbandry in my background. Tried chickens for some time.  Turns out there was lead paint on the property and they were eating it...a few small gardens from store bought plants. Although one property i owned had wild cherry tomatoes that came up on there own every year... I've attempted propagate them to other locals with only mild success. I enjoy foraging for berries. Not much form mushrooms though i have gathered them for others. Not much for hunting though i have no reservations about it. I've always thought it would be awesome to have a bird of prey. Falconry? Can't recall the exact wording.
I suppose that is enough for now.  Have a great day everybody.  Ben
 
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Location: Richwood, West Virginia
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author & steward
Posts: 2099
Location: Southeastern U.S. - Zone 7b
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Welcome, Ben! I found this forum through internet research as well. Now, it's my most valued resource for all things permaculture and homestead. Have you had a chance to explore the forums yet? Permies is a huge website with loads of valuable discussions and information tucked away here and there.
 
ben heidorn
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For sure Liegh, I find the regreening the desert area of interest having followed John d Liu's, allan savory, and the church's chicken fellows works. There certainly is tons of information to digest in here. I've been perusing the singles section a bit even though I have no plans or extra energy for a relationship. I find myself in the real estate area  a bit as well even though I seem unable to escape the city. I'm reminded of one of Louis L'Amour's favorite catch phrases. "The things you own end up owning you". And of course the stove section.
 
Leigh Tate
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Location: Southeastern U.S. - Zone 7b
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Great! I look forward to your joining in the conversations. :)
 
ben heidorn
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Hi burl....looks alot like southern ohio in your photo where do you hail from?
 
Burl Smith
Posts: 546
Location: Richwood, West Virginia
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I've been in the property flipping business since the 80's. No need to take a vacation just move to a different state and do another one. I was up near Sugarcreek Ohio and bottle raised some jersey calves then decided to Dairy so remodeled a run down dairy farm while milking. One year of that was enough so it was back to Florida and that's where I'm headed next for a well earned break in the alligator swamps. I've been there before so it's not as bas as it might seem.
 
ben heidorn
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Haha I've been around since the 80's...I have resided in Florida for a spell, didnt much care for it. Didnt mind the wildlife though. Folks do eat well at barbecues.
 
ben heidorn
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I suppose I can go into more detail about the stove project since this has been attached to the wood stoves as well. Probably gonna fiddle with it a bit more before hand, a few more details to sort out.  One thing is for certain, the 1/4" baffle is definitely resistant to rapid temperature loss when the door is opened....if you want to feed the fire and toss an a log it is fairly easy to resume secondary action. Having the door open to rake coals and adding multiple splits is a  different story though.


 
ben heidorn
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Update to the stove project.

I found some time  to make some changes. Added a few more air holes to the pipes. Added some flame holders to them as well. The results of which are never in line with what I would guess. Also struggling with poorly seasoned wood, but overall happy with the performance. I am heating a  2100 square feet poorly insulated work shop. Bare block walls 14 ft tall with 3 inch eps on the ceiling. I can raise the temperature about 20⁰F over exterior temps which has been comfortable.  This has been a mild January though.

The building is divided in half with a drafty osb divider with no insulation.  The other half of the structure has 3mil plastic stapled to the rafters and is falling down in many places so it stays exterior temps. Except when it warms up. Then it retains the cold like a refrigerator. Obvious improvements can be made there and I have aquired more of the eps to hang, but I have to much junk in the way to get started!

I have really enjoyed reading threads written by intelligent stable minded folks from all over. I have learned a ton in such a short time. Gonna buy some PIE when I find some wifi. I enjoy supporting worthwhile causes and this seems to be one that stands on honest legs in a world dominated by frauds.

I'll try to work up a detailed description with images for the stove project. I have done a timed burn with a full load of wood. 2 cubic feet i believe. I'll have to change my cut length to get maximum use. Most of what I have is for a stove that fits 20-24 inch splits. I left that stove in place. It  needs complete overhaul, every gasket blown out...door is cracked, steel in place of glass.  I can fit the logs in lengthwis in this stove but it is awkward and wastes space. Also the coals tend to roll towards the door and spill out when opening. 15" pushed straight in can fill the firebox 100%. I had sorted a few that met the requirements to fit longitudinally, only had enough for one load. Brought the stove up to temp and a good thick bed of coals raked out.  Loaded the stove and left it with full air for 35 min. The time was 3:10pm. Latched the door and throttled the primary air at 3:45. I was using a thin piece of steel with blled holes drilled in,  as this stove is epa non regulated and no provision allowed for air adjustment. I have since made a door. Would rather have a slider but the spacing would not allow for that. At around 7:30pm as secondary action was falling off i added just a bit more primary airflow. It was 8:45pm when I added more wood! Definitely beats the heck out of throwing 2 logs in every 40 minutes in the old setup.
20210111_001338.jpg
Loading method fire burn time test
Loading method fire burn time test
 
ben heidorn
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Decided that bending over to load the stove and ash it was for the birds so i built this stand. Works awesome, however the coals like to jump out when raking and the original plan was to stack wood on the floor underneath, and kindling on the shelf. Perhaps a 2-3 inch tray along the edge would make things safer in that regard.

20210118_201645.jpg
stand
stand
 
ben heidorn
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The air enters through the side via an inch and a quarter pipe above the baffle.



Then is drawn down into three pipes below the baffle. Each pipe started with 2 rows of 25 1/16 inch holes facing sideways but slighty down. I have since added more.

I have played with a divider on the inlet to make the air spend more time in the upper section before entering the lower tubes, especially the closest. Doesn't seem to change anything in  operation. The stove does seem to run cold on that side and burn from left to right either way. Which isn't necessarily a  bad thing
20210122_164343.jpg
secondary intake
secondary intake
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air pipe
air pipe
20210122_164423.jpg
divider
divider
20210122_164304.jpg
air pipe
air pipe
 
ben heidorn
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Tried adding more air to the back lower area which seems to run fairly cold depleted for more even combustion.  I salvaged a stove top burner and worked the sand and wire  out of it. This takes some patience. This I tapped into the rear of the center pipe dropping down with air holes along the end. I simply crushed the end in the vise to close it off.
Haven't noticed any difference in burn quality. Still end up with a bunch of  tightly packed coals that must be pulled forward and the stove run wide open to ignite.
20210122_164218.jpg
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ben heidorn
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Building the primary air door
20210122_173639.jpg
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20210126_165750.jpg
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20210126_165803.jpg
Here you can see a small shim bent to clip on the edge of the door. I can increase the minimum primary air by moving it closer to the pivot point of the hinge.
Here you can see a small shim bent to clip on the edge of the door. I can increase the minimum primary air by moving it closer to the pivot point of the hinge.
20210126_165824.jpg
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20210126_165836.jpg
I can slide the weight to fine control the secondary action. This only works when the fire box is near max temp and no moisture is evaporating.
I can slide the weight to fine control the secondary action. This only works when the fire box is near max temp and no moisture is evaporating.
 
ben heidorn
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I've noticed no meaningful airflow through the pipes to the bottom of the stove. I added a few more holes a little higher up with no change as well. So I removed them. I left the holes open for the time being,  and now there might be an increase in activity towards the rear of the stove.

I believe you can see in one of the photos that I drooped some of the nickel wire from the top of the stove. While they do get glowing hot quite easily,  I haven't noticed any appreciable change in secondary combustion near them.

I have considered replacing the shim in the primary air door with a drilled and tapped hole for a set screw, not sure if it is worth the effort though.
20210113_113833.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20210113_113833.jpg]
20210113_113350.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20210113_113350.jpg]
 
ben heidorn
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So I have come to the conclusion that the divider that keeps the air flow from immediately entering the first two tubes is of little consequence. If had to guess maybe a few percent restriction in airflow. If the wood is dry enough to begin secondary combustion,  then the airflow is sufficiently heated either way. Moisture is the only enemy!  I've setup a drying rack above the stove to get the next batch of logs preheated a bit and I have moved on to a better stored rack of splits. With the recent dip in temperature I'm glad I didn't burn it all already!

Ive attempted to do some quantifying on my consumption rate. 5-6 lbs/hr is my best guestimate. Any tips on mathing up cords per season? Or btu output or efficiency of the system?
 
ben heidorn
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I'm currently burning a mixture of oak,  honey locust, mulberry, ash, and maple. Some pine kindling. A 10lb oak, 5lb locust, and 4lb mulberry loaded at 5am provide useful heat until 9am burning with a bit more air as it is 12deg F keeping the shop at 45F. The next batch is currently on those coals consisting of 16lbs of maple. One hour in and looks to be an hour remaining before this load is consumed. Outdoor temp is reported at 15F. I do not have an exterior thermometer. Definitely less heat from the maple, although the temp is stable at 45F approximately 30 ft away. There is a difference in comfort and I believe that I'll reserve the maple for starting fires from now on. My father from another marriage is an avid woodworker and has a moisture meter so I'm going to get a moisture reading on a couple of fresh splits.
 
Leigh Tate
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Location: Southeastern U.S. - Zone 7b
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ben heidorn wrote:Ive attempted to do some quantifying on my consumption rate. 5-6 lbs/hr is my best guestimate. Any tips on mathing up cords per season? Or btu output or efficiency of the system?


I've been researching batch box rocket stoves, and they use a formula to size the stoves based on cubic footage to be heated, insulation of the room or space, and desired temperature difference between indoors and outdoors. I realize that isn't what you need nor that it probably won't help you much, but as part of that research, I found a chart reflecting the weights of cords of wood, various species, both green and dried -> What does a cord of wood weigh?. That one might help.
 
ben heidorn
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Thanks Leigh,  I have found the cord wieght chart and it should prove useful once I get some moisture content data.

The formula appears to be quite good info as well, alas I have had poor sleep and can't find the effort to rearrange it to suit my needs. It definitely should though.

I got impatient with the maple burn and chucked another 10lb piece of oak in there, in my sleepless fog I lapsed on my log drying rotation atop the stove. The fire is stalled and now its getting a bit chilly.

 
pollinator
Posts: 391
Location: NE Ohio / USDA Zone 5b
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Hey Ben - welcome to permies!  Sometimes it's a bit slow here and there but we've got a good crew spread throughout the state.

Where do you live?
 
ben heidorn
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Rob Kaiser wrote:Hey Ben - welcome to permies!  Sometimes it's a bit slow here and there but we've got a good crew spread throughout the state.

Where do you live?



Springtucky we like to say.

Thanks where abouts are you located?

 
Rob Kaiser
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ben heidorn wrote:

Rob Kaiser wrote:Hey Ben - welcome to permies!  Sometimes it's a bit slow here and there but we've got a good crew spread throughout the state.

Where do you live?



Springtucky we like to say.

Thanks where abouts are you located?



I'm up in the NE part of the state - Medina County
 
ben heidorn
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Two different worlds in such a short distance eh?  Mono crop central round these parts.  I was pleasantly surprised by one of the local farm markets that was renting a field from my girlfriend's parents, put in a veg patch instead of soy or corn. Nice change of scenery, but it ended up being spray and watering intensive then all the ditching was upgraded because it was done to convention. I wonder how I could casually bring up some permaculture ideas in conversation and see if I could pique his interest. He seems very pro big ag in so many ways, and then not in many others. He and the landowner attend the farm science review in London every year if that is any indication.


And of course 90% of the wind breaks got slashed and burnt! For more light. This was around the time that the orscamic take over was complete by big ag and winding down.  I had just begun taking in some greening the desert documentaries but had no idea beyond that. I recently began reading Dr RedHawk's Epic soil series and his "Avatar"
analogy is spot on! I made this this connection years ago and Bryant is the first person I've come across that has said the same thing. AND IT TURNS OUT HE CAN PROVE IT NO LESS! Amazing.  


 
ben heidorn
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Little bugs that sparkle? Plants that talk to each other? Sounds magical!

Typical American "I wish we had stuff like that on Earth, maybe NASA will find it".

Me pointing exuberantly at the swarms of lightning bugs all over, they just can't see it.
 
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