Trish Doherty wrote:I'm in the early stages of a permaculture project in the high desert of NM (small, urban). Yes, it's doable, but just know that the land you choose will have unique challenges. One of the things I find is that you can't get stuff that other people get... like I can't just order a load of wood chips unless I want to pay a fortune to have them brought in. You have to be creative with your resources. You also need to think about the climate you choose and let it dictate what your permaculture site is going to look like. Bill Mollison said in one of his videos that a desert-based system has the potential to be the most fruitful of all systems.... But you might need to adjust your expectations of what it is you're going to grow. For example, where I live, cactus could be a great food crop. Prickly pears already grow everywhere, but not many people actually eat them. That doesn't mean you can't work to create a food forest (I am), but I'm also leaving a space for what's native and already wants to be here, and maximizing that to its fullest potential. If I make all my soil too rich, my cactus will die.
Where my mom lives, her biggest problem is voles (at least that's what we think they are). She lives in a place that is basically sand dunes and scrub, and these critters tunnel under anything she plants. Even after having fruit trees established there for over ten years, everything started dying off because the voles tunnel under everything and disrupt the roots. My mom battled them for years and has mostly given up. My theory is that they want the coolness and moisture of the soil near the plants, but so far we haven't found a way to redirect them. When you try to water a plant, the soil will just start collapsing to reveal new tunnels, and the water gets sucked down and away, and I'm not sure that it ever gets to the plant.
Another thing is that the sun is killer here. So when people tell you that a plant is "sun-loving", that doesn't mean it will thrive. Almost everything needs shade, especially from the western sun. You may find yourself in need of shade structures just to get going, unless you put in some incredibly tough pioneer plants and give them time to develop and create shade before trying to plant anything less tough.
Also, think really hard about the water situation. Anything short of a cactus will likely need to be watered the first year to establish. Swales, etc, help a lot, but with the LONG, hot periods between precipitation, you need access to a water source. You could probably manage without access to irrigation, but it would be a much longer process, I think. So when you are looking for property, you want something with a well that has plenty of water in it. Drilling your own well is dicier. You don't know how far you're going to need to drill to get to water. Another option could be water catchment, but you would need a very large storage tank (or tanks) because we tend to get all our rain in a short time.
All that said, I've lived in different places across the country, and maybe I'm biased, but nothing else has the rugged beauty of the Southwest. I highly recommend finding a place near some mountains; if you've never lived near the mountains, you've been missing out. We definitely need more folks restoring this land, so if you're up for a challenge, then I say go for it. Whatever location you choose, just make sure you do thorough research before buying your land. Talk to the locals and find out what kinds of problems they have before you commit. I wouldn't want to face off against those voles, for example. :)
sow…reap…compost…repeat
Amy Gardener wrote:A helpful bit of research when looking at the accomplishments of experts in desert transformations is to look at the history of the land that they transformed. What was the land like before it became a desert? Some places are deserts because humans have degraded once fertile land and destroyed watersheds and topsoil. Those can be rehabilitated to their original splendor. Other places are deserts because of long-time temperature extremes and longstanding arid climates. You will find that high desert daytime highs and nighttime lows are drastic and unchangeable. These are places where humans cannot impose their will upon the land and grow crops suited to other conditions.
I find it helpful, when choosing what to plant here in New Mexico's high desert, to look around the globe at places with similar altitude and latitude. For me, the places most similar to my land are in the high deserts of China and Afghanistan. These remote and unfamiliar regions grow plants that also thrive where I live: garlic, chiles, and Afghan pine. Do you like the plants that grow at the ~9000'+ and ~5000'+ high desert altitudes that you noted in your original post? These are harsh climates and you may not feel at home with the plants and animals that thrive in the places where land is inexpensive.
On the other hand, you may fall in love with the harsh terrain and become notorious with your novel approach to making a life in the wild Southwest. There is a saying in New Mexico that if you come here and try to impose your will upon the land, it will chew you up and spit you out in two years. If you fall in love, this land will take you in and you can never leave.
Maybe it is time for you to take a road trip to the National Parks of the American Southwest and learn the remarkable history of how people found their way in this rugged landscape. You will be amazed.
sow…reap…compost…repeat
sow…reap…compost…repeat
Michael Littlejohn wrote:Hi Silas,
Great post and I am rooting for you.
I have to share some of my experiences with you about "cheap land" in the US Southwest however. I went through a phase of buying several uber-cheap properties in the Texas Chihuahuan Desert and I actually have a laundry list of caveats for you, and I apologize if you are already aware of these pitfalls. My experiences were overwhelmingly not good and the short list is:
(1) Inaccurate and confusing boundary surveys (often the reason for the sale of the property and if you look at the chain of ownership you will see numerous previous owners for property, which is a real red flag.
(2) No surveyor would touch it (all on retainer with the regional oil and gas companies ) none will touch that boundary survey and I dont know about AZ but in Texas you're not buying mineral rights (and therefore have no legal recourse if
(3) somebody wants to drill, pump, frack, etc) but also IF your boundary survey is not right, none of those surveyors will do it for any amount of money it because it would cause litigation between the oil companies which own the mineral rights.
(4) If you are from MS and used to 40 inches of rain annually, then you are going to get really sick of buying water, or unprofitably drilling 198 feet if your well is a near miss.
(5) Corporate agriculture is sucking the water out of the region so that your water table today may not be what it will be four years from now.
(6) If you can pump it, its often brackish water in the US Southwest.
(7) Coyotes are lined up waiting for your chickens and sheep.
( Your plants may have to drill themselves through compacted calcium "caliche" that you have to hack through in that part of the country, ( if you've done your homework you could possibly avoid that).
(9) A very intrusive, rude and prying INS, DEA presence on the constant lookout for undocumented persons and contraband (you may get tired of being pulled over a couple times of month for no particular reason)
(10) Unless you have a team to work with, be advised that people will come on your property when you are away and steal every tool, animal, dog, tractor, bail of wire and dig your plants out of the ground in your absence,
(11) Creosote bush, if you have them you know what a pain they are
(12) Fracking, and you may want to do research on that, but if somebody is pumping pink jellified gunk into the ground 1500 feet from my Permaculture project, I would be one very unhappy camper.
(13) Finally, infrastructure issues, adobe requires water, but if you need wood you may have to truck in every stick of it.
I apologize for all of the above, I share it with the best of intentions. That being said, you would be a hero if you could make a go of a greening-the-desert type program in that area, because its much needed, but I think you are in for a multi-tiered challenge, which exists on a political and economic arena on one end and the other which is an agricultural challenge with water and infrastructure issues.
I would add that I thought of using African Acacias in that part of the world. to create shade and humus, the local Mesquites being prolific but rather spindly in profile as compared to their more robust African cousins. (Umbrella acacia) came to mind but alas I never even got that far. Best, M
Silas Rempel wrote:So iam fairly new to permaculture and am iam learning a lot here, thank you.(kind of ironically I learned of permaculture while driving a tractor and listening to audiobooks on a 3,000 conventional row crop farm:) so iam 20 and live at home. And I want to start a permaculture farmstead. Looking at land prices makes you consider selling a kidney or bank robbery. Since bank robbery is illegal if you get Caught I've had to look for cheaper land. Then I found the southwest. $500 an acre all day long. Then I looked at what permaculture has done in these dry almost barren Environments. And iam amazed! The work of Allen Savory, Geoff Lawton and others. So now I ask for your wisdom. Those of you who practice permaculture in dry environments, those of you who have used Allen Savory's methods with results. And just anyone with valuable wisdom that I could possibly benefit from! And any good books to read on dry climate permaculture/regenerative agriculture. Thanks
To clarify I have no experience in a dry climate. I live in Mississippi, it's hot, wet, and humid here. Pictures of the kind of land iam looking at.
Paula Frazier wrote:
Silas Rempel wrote:So iam fairly new to permaculture and am iam learning a lot here, thank you.(kind of ironically I learned of permaculture while driving a tractor and listening to audiobooks on a 3,000 conventional row crop farm:) so iam 20 and live at home. And I want to start a permaculture farmstead. Looking at land prices makes you consider selling a kidney or bank robbery. Since bank robbery is illegal if you get Caught I've had to look for cheaper land. Then I found the southwest. $500 an acre all day long. Then I looked at what permaculture has done in these dry almost barren Environments. And iam amazed! The work of Allen Savory, Geoff Lawton and others. So now I ask for your wisdom. Those of you who practice permaculture in dry environments, those of you who have used Allen Savory's methods with results. And just anyone with valuable wisdom that I could possibly benefit from! And any good books to read on dry climate permaculture/regenerative agriculture. Thanks
To clarify I have no experience in a dry climate. I live in Mississippi, it's hot, wet, and humid here. Pictures of the kind of land iam looking at.
Hi, I am currently in Apache County Arizona. Saint Johns to be exact. It’s beautiful, hot but without the humidity and very dry.
Please beware of buying property sight unseen and be aware that you may be an hour (sometimes more) from the nearest store or fire department/emergency services so plan accordingly. I would highly suggest contacting the Apache County and getting more info on the area and requirements for wells and irrigation. Also be sure to do due diligence and be mindful of any HOAs and their restrictions. Some properties only allow for a single family on 30-40ac and some only allow certain animals.
I am from WV and love it here. My only true complaint is cost of food/goods in town. Things are more expensive because the nearest Walmart, etc is a solid hour away. (So is the ER.) I may go back to WV to visit but it won’t be anytime soon.
Best wishes for you on your endeavors.
https://www.apachecountyaz.gov/
Michael Littlejohn wrote:http://fortrockfarms.com/45-simple-living-the-final-step/
Fort Rock farms is in Arizona and an interesting website. You might try to network with them. Link above. Best...M
In modern times the only right way forward is to come back to nature.
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