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living economies, alternatives to fiat currency  RSS feed

 
Leila Rich
steward
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Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,
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I'm pretty interested in alternatives to current monetary systems. I'm thinking options to compliment, not to do away with...
This website is NZ-based, but there's lots of internationally relevant stuff.
living economies
And remember, this is just a link, not a discussion-starter
 
Devon Olsen
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Location: SE Wyoming -zone 4
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some interesting concepts... where would a good place be to discuss the implementation of these concepts?
i think it could easily be implemented at the family unit level...
 
Leila Rich
steward
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Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,
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Devon, this is hardly 'politics and justice' material, I'll move it into 'financial strategy'
 
Penny Francis
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In NH there are some (maybe many) who will conduct business in silver. Free State Project puts on the Porcupine Freedom Festival and I conducted busness in copper, silver, eggs and BACON during the PorcFest!

There is also barter. I would certainly barter for services. I think the harder items to barter for are some of the things we consider essential every day but I know of someone who is often paid in food (bags of it) in exchange for his work.
 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
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Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
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My household is having success in the gifting and sharing economy.

 
Judith Browning
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Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
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Over the last forty years we have traded a truck for goats (it may have been a horse? but it was our only truck back then), dental work and a small surgery for construction work, doctors visits for weaving, lots of weaving and woodwork for other crafts at shows, various vegetables and plants for eggs and cheese and also love the "gifting and sharing economy" Tyler mentions (insert happy face...my kindle will not let me do that). We have shared work days among our friends for larger jobs and then there are plant exchanges. It always seems as though there is enough "stuff" in the world for everyone it justs needs to get shuffled around a bit every once in awhile. Just yesterday my husband brought home a big bag of handmade soaps that he was gifted and he then shared some wooden scoops that he makes. I don't spend money on presents ...I either make something or "shop" in our house for something appropriate.
 
kent smith
Posts: 211
Location: Pennsylvania
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very interesting. we see some of this in the Amish community around us. I have to wonder how the IRS feels about all of this? I just keep what we do under the radar.
kent
 
Judith Browning
Posts: 5912
Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
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kent smith wrote:very interesting. we see some of this in the Amish community around us. I have to wonder how the IRS feels about all of this? I just keep what we do under the radar.
kent


We play by the rules for all of our self emloyment income and will draw social security this fall that reflects that. I think that one would actually have to put a high dollar value on things for it to matter to the IRS but it could be someone will correct me on this.
 
Tyler Ludens
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kent smith wrote:very interesting. we see some of this in the Amish community around us. I have to wonder how the IRS feels about all of this?


The advantage of gifting and sharing is that it is not taxable, whereas barter may be taxable. Even quite large gifts of cash can be exchanged without any tax result to either the giver or the receiver. The difference between gifting/sharing and barter is that in gifting, there is no expectation of equal value return, whereas barter is generally accepted to mean an exchange of equal value. A gift economy is based on trust and mutual support, with no expectations except caring for each other.

 
Judith Browning
Posts: 5912
Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
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Tyler Ludens wrote:
kent smith wrote:very interesting. we see some of this in the Amish community around us. I have to wonder how the IRS feels about all of this?


The advantage of gifting and sharing is that it is not taxable, whereas barter may be taxable. Even quite large gifts of cash can be exchanged without any tax result to either the giver or the receiver. The difference between gifting/sharing and barter is that in gifting, there is no expectation of equal value return, whereas barter is generally accepted to mean an exchange of equal value. A gift economy is based on trust and mutual support, with no expectations except caring for each other.



I guess I have bad associations with the word barter so I use the word trade and actually they mean the same thing. A trade usually does involve putting some kind of dollar value on a service, etc. also. My old hippie idealism loves the practice of "gifting/sharing" ....I just think it's not a practical way to approach a dentist , for example. This is mostly semantics I think. I think a trade can also be based on trust and mutual support and how one approaches the no expectations part is probably more to do with how one feels their way through the world no matter what type of economy they practice.
 
Tyler Ludens
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My 82 year old dentist father has recently been gifting some dentistry to a person in need. She needs a denture, he can help fit her for one, so he has been doing this even though he's had to drive a couple hours to her house and back to do it. He's just that kind of guy (an amazing guy, I think, but then I'm a bit biased ). She's not paying him anything for it, and I doubt he would accept anything "in return" though probably a nice glass of iced tea would be appreciated. If a person needs some dentistry and there's no friendly dentist in their group of friends, other non-dentist friends might gift some $ to help get the needed care. The key to a robust gifting economy is a lot of friends or a few really good ones.
 
Judith Browning
Posts: 5912
Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
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Tyler Ludens wrote:My 82 year old dentist father has recently been gifting some dentistry to a person in need. She needs a denture, he can help fit her for one, so he has been doing this even though he's had to drive a couple hours to her house and back to do it. He's just that kind of guy (an amazing guy, I think, but then I'm a bit biased ). She's not paying him anything for it, and I doubt he would accept anything "in return" though probably a nice glass of iced tea would be appreciated. If a person needs some dentistry and there's no friendly dentist in their group of friends, other non-dentist friends might gift some $ to help get the needed care. The key to a robust gifting economy is a lot of friends or a few really good ones.


I love this.......what a society should be....taking care of each other not competing with each other.
In an ideal world , in my opinion, no one should have to struggle to meet their basic needs...food, shelter and health care.
 
Devon Olsen
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Location: SE Wyoming -zone 4
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woah!! this got a LOT more discussion after being moved

gifting and bartering seem to be quite alive, and a somewhat simple concept to grasp
anyone have any experience working with savings pools?
i find these to be EXTREMELY interesting tools for escaping debt and interest, would love to learn as much as possible about it and maybe start a family savings pool
if anyone is, i would LOVE to hear about it for sure
 
Devon Olsen
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Location: SE Wyoming -zone 4
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i am meeting with someone over skype tonight to learn more about savings pools so that i can begin to implement one in the family...
 
Sam White
Posts: 227
Location: Caerphilly, Wales, UK
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A bloke called Mark Boyle wrote a book called the 'Moneyless Man' based on his experiences of living without money for a year here in the UK which is well worth a read. He has a new book coming out this year called the 'Moneyless Manifesto' which will contain practical information on living without money - there will be an online version available for free on the book's website which is to be launched in November.

Some of you will have heard of Justfortheloveofit.org (Mark Boyle again) and time banking which are very much in keeping with sharing, gift economies etc.
 
Raymond Reichart
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I find bitcoin to be a nice alterative, small allocations, to saving in "Fiat Currencies". I have a small position in a bitcoin mining company called Havelock Investments. A share currently costs around $170 USD and pays a 17% APR. The bitcoin concept is fascinating and a slap in the face to today’s financial repression.

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/index.php

http://bitcoincharts.com/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=3-years-in-bitcoin-digital-money-gains-momentum

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/10/04/bitcoin-prevents-monetary-tyranny/
 
Shelly Randall
Posts: 73
Location: Central Valley California
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I was listening to NPR the other day and learned of a parallel economy in Spain called a Time Bank. Because the unemployment level is at 25 percent with austerity measures, a lot of people are out of work but want to be productive, so a Facebook- like online tool recently became available where a dentist can trade "hours" of work with a child care giver and the hours are measured the same amount. Everyone is paid the same for their work in essence. It is a beautiful creation made possible from some rather dire conditions. Taxing authorities can't do anything about it because the arrangements are sporatic, not on an ongoing basis.
 
Devon Olsen
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Location: SE Wyoming -zone 4
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time banks are also to be found on the living economies site, definately interesting
 
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