Deer fence succession planning

Nov 02, 2022 16:28:20

A few years after we started planting trees in our field we decided that we really did need a deer fence and invested in a 4ft extension to the existing 3ft stock fence. This worked really well at stopping the deer from decimating the baby trees.
I am becoming aware this year that some of the taller fence posts are already starting to rot, so I'm having a think about extending the life of the fence, or maybe doing something more affordable. A few people have mentioned on various threads that deer can't judge distance well, so won't jump a fence if they can't see the landing clear. So my thought is to plant a hedge inside the fence. I probably won't make it stock proof - we'd probably replace the stock fence when required - just make the hedge tall and thick enough to provide a bit of a screen.
Has anyone done something like this and how did it work? Is there an optimum distance of the hedge from the fence, or is it just a matter of obscuring the ground enough?
This is our existing boundary:

Nov 02, 2022 16:53:11

I haven't done this, but everything I've read and seen of deer, you need the hedge dense enough at the bottom that the deer won't push through rather than going over the top. In other words, several rows of shrubs with the plants off-set (diamond shaped). There's some cool techniques with plants that will "fuse to each other" where they tie the branches together in a crisscross. There's also the system from the British Isles called "laying a hedge", but that takes skills I don't have!

Nov 03, 2022 00:27:32

Ah, that's a shame about the fence. Interesting challenge. Have you seen this post? https://permies.com/t/19508/Deer-Resistant-Beautiful-Living-Hedge

I don't suppose there's any chance of increasing deer forage on the common land?

Nov 03, 2022 05:46:34

Jay Angler wrote:I haven't done this, but everything I've read and seen of deer, you need the hedge dense enough at the bottom that the deer won't push through rather than going over the top. In other words, several rows of shrubs with the plants off-set (diamond shaped). There's some cool techniques with plants that will "fuse to each other" where they tie the branches together in a crisscross. There's also the system from the British Isles called "laying a hedge", but that takes skills I don't have!

I think we'll still need the stock fence, but one of these is half as much effort as putting in a full deer fence. The sheep will prune that back for us and keep it bushy at the base.

Yes, I'm not aspiring to hedge laying, or not to that standard. I may do it in a couple of years to try and reduce the number of starter plants required. There has just been the UK hedge laying championship at Wallingford Oxfordshire. Here's Colin Clutterbuck with his trophy. I gather the prize money amounts to some £200, which may just have covered his fuel costs from Somerset....(or maybe his class refers to the laying style, and he lives more local to the competition)

Source

Nov 03, 2022 05:52:48

Since the post seem to be the issue , is there any chance you could grow replacements?
Black locust grown right along the fence line might work as a hedge and fence posts.
I don't know how it would deal with deer browse, but the volunteer locust in my front yard grew back to 8 feet plus after being cut to below ground level.

Nov 03, 2022 07:53:15

William Bronson wrote:Since the post seem to be the issue , is there any chance you could grow replacements?

That is a possibility. We do have some larch growing quite well, but most are a bit crooked, and I don't think we have enough for the whole fence. Might use some in the medium term to prop up the existing fence for as long as possible.

Black locust grown right along the fence line might work as a hedge and fence posts.

I don't consider that good practise really - anyone cutting the trees in the future would not welcome a mix of wire and staples in their wood.

I don't know how it would deal with deer browse, but the volunteer locust in my front yard grew back to 8 feet plus after being cut to
below ground level.

In my area I wouldn't choose black locust as a tree to plant. I think we're too wet and cold for it to do well. At the moment I'm thinking hawthorn and blackthorn (sloe) as the main shrubs. Nothing really grows that fast here, but those are both survivors, and the blackthorn at least I have plenty of suckers from my existing plants making the hedge propagation free.

Nov 03, 2022 10:22:21

Nancy Reading wrote: At the moment I'm thinking hawthorn and blackthorn (sloe) as the main shrubs. Nothing really grows that fast here, but those are both survivors, and the blackthorn at least I have plenty of suckers from my existing plants making the hedge propagation free.

I'm currently reading, "Coppice Agroforestry" by Mark Krawczyk and those are the two plants specifically recommended for hedges for managing animal incursions/escapes, so it sounds as if you're on the right track!

Nov 03, 2022 14:13:14

I hadn't considered the issue of wire embedded in timber.
I suppose I assumed one would cut around it
I wonder if a stand off of some kind could prevent that issue.
But how does one connect the standoff to the timber without metal?
Are brad nail and staples just as bad as wire?
Can you put a wood peg in a live tree without killing the tree?
I googled this, but I couldn't find a good answer.
I think I'll try it with the locust...

Maybe the wire itself is the issue.
Many times I have struggled with with shrubs and wire fencing, no trees involved.
Wire fencing does persist far past the point it is useful as such.

This leads us back to hedges, which don't present these hazards, but do take their time arriving on scene.
Dead hedges might be an option, if you have the material for them.
They could be a barrier against animals just pushing through.
I don't think there needs to be set boundary between living hedge and dead hedge, as long as you living hedge plants don't mind..
most hedge plants sprout from where they are buried, so a little bit of wood should hurt.

It is said that the highest portions of a deer fence only need to present a visual deterrent, because the deer cannot challenge them with their bodies.
In that level of the fencing at least, perhaps a hemp or jute cord could be used.
It won't last the way a wire will, but that also eliminates the hazard of wire persisting in timber or shrubbery.
It will require replacement until the hedge gets tall enough, and that means extra resources expended but consider the the efforts needed to keep the wire away from the plants.

Since larch will grow where you are, how about red mulberry?
It is said to be rot resistant and fast growing.
I find collecting the fruit to be a fiddly affair, so I leave it to my chickens.
My mongrel mulberries also grow back from roots, but not as well as the locust,

Another random thought, one that requires too much labor to be taken seriously, but, have you heard of a ha ha?

Nov 03, 2022 14:48:24

William Bronson wrote:I hadn't considered the issue of wire embedded in timber.
I suppose I assumed one would cut around it

Trees often grow around the wire completely embedding it. The fence dies of old age, so someone just cuts it off, but there's still wire deep in the tree. The tree dies or is in the way, and your chainsaw is suddenly trying to eat wire. This is not only damaging to the chain saw, but can injure the operator also.

The risk of this is partly based on the type of tree and how large its circumference will reach. My neighbor has a mill and was cutting a large log and hit embedded metal breaking several teeth off his blade. He's now the proud owner of a quality metal detector!

Hubby and I have discussed this possibility. We figure some sort of 2x4 holding the fence, and some sort of lag screw to hold the 2x4 to the tree. The idea is that once a year you go along and "unscrew" the lag screw by a 1/2 turn or so depending on the growth of the tree.

Part of the issue here is that everyone wants things that are "maintenance free" and that's not realistic for most fences. About the longest lived would be dry-stacked rock, but that's a huge amount of work. Early farmers often used a "trench and mound" system which evolved into the Ha-ha you linked to above. Before extensive fossil fuel use for machinery, farm decisions were very dependent on available human-power!

When Wheaton Labs runs out of the "junk poles" they are using for fencing, I'm betting he'll go to some sort of coppice system to provide the needed poles in a cost-effective/human-power manageable way. There's evidence of coppiced wood back to the early iron age in areas of Western Europe/British Isles.

Nov 04, 2022 12:59:37

I understand it is common logger/sawmill practice to refuse to cut wood that has been in a fence line, just because of the risk of embedded metal.

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