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Traps, ok... How to KILL rats (for meat)

Xisca Nicolas

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Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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I have problems to find good meat.
I have problems to save my almonds, avocados and oranges from rats
I have well-fed rats...
-> I want to convert the problemSS into a solution!
-> I want to catch my well-fed meat!

Ok... I have seen some solutions for traps. Then killing ?
I cannot imagine eating an animal that died after hours of swimming.
I will not look for outside solutions such as buying nitrogen gas.

How do you handle a fighting animal to catch and put it in a bin with a candle that must not go off until oxygen is missing enough to kill the rat?
Yes I liked the gas solutions if it is possible to make something easily.

Some traps kill the rat. How do I bait without the cats putting their nose in it? This system works better for mice.
I have the rat size and it caught our big lizards (they also damage, as they eat every new shoot during the dry season)
I would like the practical solution, not only ideas but the way to develop it for real. Thanks! Gracias!

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Maeve Gregory

Posts: 7

posted 12 years ago

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How big are these rats that their fighting is a problem?? I don't understand why you can't reach in the trap, grab the rat, and break its neck or slit its throat. Wear heavy gloves if you are afraid of being bitten or scratched.

Xisca Nicolas

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Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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Normal size, smaller than cats. Very few cats chase them though they hunt mice and big lizards. Mine do not even approach an ill rat that does not move.

Someone was about to catch a rat in a corner, and the rat just attacked and let him bleeding a lot.

The trap would be a barrel I think, so that they fall down into it.
I do not want a fight afterward, nor a meat full of adrenaline, this is not as easy as a rabbit.
You understand then why I look for something more suitable than guessing what size and thickness should the gloves be?

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Maeve Gregory

Posts: 7

posted 12 years ago

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If you plan on doing this on a large scale, then it might be worth making your own catch pole. Something like http://www.animal-traps.com/catch-poles.html (scroll to the bottom for simple ones). Snag the rat while it's in the barrel and then heavy gloves and handling by the scruff of the neck while you do the killing. Heck if you are really handy with making a catch pole, maybe you could make it sturdy enough to strangle the rat while you're at it.

Xisca Nicolas

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Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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Thanks, I got the idea of the concept, interesting!

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Alder Burns

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Location: southern Illinois, USA

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posted 12 years ago

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I have a couple of live cage traps ("Havahart" is one popular brand in the US). These give you the option of releasing the animal if it turns out to be a pet or otherwise beneficial. With rats and squirrels I either shoot them in the trap or (in the case of the smaller trap), submerging the entire trap under water and drowning the occupant. Either way the meat would be fresh and edible, if I chose to use it thus. Here in CA the ground squirrels supposedly carry plague, so I haven't done enough research to risk it yet.

Tom Davis

Posts: 156

posted 12 years ago

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Catch 12 rats, put in a barrel.
Eventually, they will eat each other. One will likely survive.
Release the last 1, you now have a rat that will eat other rats for you. ( forget where i heard about doing this).
Maybe it's cruel? I have not tried it.

or

catch rats in whatever trap you have.
Feed rats to pigs or chickens or fish.
eat pigs or chickens

For me, pigs or chickens are much more appealing meat than rats.

A lot of things come out of nowhere, so look everywhere.

wayne stephen

steward

Posts: 1748

Location: Western Kentucky-Climate Unpredictable Zone 6b

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posted 12 years ago

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Are they nocturnal , tree dwellers or burrowers ? Do they flee out of sight when you approach ? What are the gun laws where you live. There are air powered pellet and shotguns which are as effective as .22 caliber and .410 gauge guns at close range. You could bait them and use battery operated spotlights to target them at night and shoot them. If you do not have the time , 13 year old boys are the same everywhere. I had great fun with airguns growing up. My Aunt Mary ,as a matter of fact , would sit in the back yard with her DagoRed wine and shoot the rats next door in the cemetery. She used a pump pellet gun and she got a big kick out of it. Buy a set of these guns and give a young boy a bounty per rat , you will probably need to invest in a deep freezer.

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Morgan Morrigan

Posts: 1400

Location: Verde Valley, AZ.

posted 12 years ago

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Trappers actually just step on the chest, compressing the lungs, dont try and crush.

If you trap use sweet bait, cats want savory. works with skunks the same way.

Dust around the area with DE or boric acid, fleas will try and escape.

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Leila Rich

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Posts: 3999

Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,

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posted 12 years ago

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There's traps here that are basically a narrow chute with a killing trap in the centre. Large animals don't fit, and/or disinterested in the bait
I'd definitely look for a sprung killing trap that only lets the animal access from limited angles. Almost guaranteed quick death, and no 'double handling'.
They're not being bled though...

Erin Zosu

Posts: 16

Location: Texas

posted 12 years ago

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Hello,
Rat exclusion practices help. You may try using rat shields around the trunks of your fruit trees. If you are really serious of catching, perhaps you can setup a barrel with a counterweighted slide. As the rats walk on the slide, it tips over and drops the rat into the barrel. Please, note rats can jump approximately 2 to 3 feet (just short of meter) so the barrel must be tall enough to prevent them from escaping. Live cage traps work well, use similar baits as what the rats are damaging for better success.
Tomahawk live cage traps work well: http://www.livetrap.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=31411
If all else fails you may want to try doing what this guy in this video is doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8TYeTJirNM&feature=endscreen&NR=1
Happy hunting.

"Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself. One of them will be your last."
--EZ--

Xisca Nicolas

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Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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Hello all and thanks for those replies!

Please note that I especially want to explore the different ways of KILLING
That is after trapping...

And I do not especially want to reduce their number if their meat is useful.
If not for me:
for my cats
for future other critters such as hens or black soldier flies...

I look for the shortest way, less suffering and less adrenaline -or what else- in the meat.
@ Leila, what is the problem of not being bled?

@ Erin, I needed to know their jumping capacity... and I love your signature as I am fed up with hearing to learn from one's own failures! May be those people do not want to share what is a shame for them...

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Rick Roman

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Posts: 442

posted 12 years ago

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Not a cat, but a dog. A Terrier. Bred to catch rats on farms. Like a Rat Terrier.

Leila Rich

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Posts: 3999

Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,

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posted 12 years ago

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Xisca, meat that isn't bled is edible, but there's often an unpleasant 'irony' taste from the pooled blood.

Chris Kott

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Posts: 3847

Location: Marmora, Ontario

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posted 12 years ago

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That's okay, Erin, I don't think cats get irony.
I'm with Tom: however you kill them, feed them to pigs and/or chickens, or to black soldier flies first, then eat the pigs and chickens.

-CK

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

Xisca Nicolas

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Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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Well, we also need iron, so all the better!

Feeding other animals first is about hygiene, or disgust when thinking about eating a rodent?

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Chris Kott

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Location: Marmora, Ontario

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posted 12 years ago

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For me, I have to say hygiene; rats can be dirty, disease-ridden filth. If they have been in contact with communicable disease of any kind, especially if they carry fleas, I would be very careful. I would use kill traps baited with a sweet lure, and as mentioned before, some kind of chute or tunnel that prevents cats from getting in to it, and also as mentioned above, ring the trap areas with lots of diatomaceous earth for flea control. Don't forget that the fleas on rats is what spread the bubonic plague throughout Europe.

-CK

Xisca Nicolas

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Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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I doubt rats can be so dirty in the countryside, I mean in a clean area. They live in stone walls, have room and good food.
Also pigs are said to be dirty, but they are dirty only when they cannot live in another way.

But I agree that even cats are not perfectly clean, nor hen when they scratch dirt, so anyway...
Let's be careful.

And I agree for flees, that will escape from them as soon as they cannot anymore feed in there!
I am going to look for this diatomaceous earth, as it might be difficult to find here...

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Matu Collins

Posts: 1947

Location: Southern New England, seaside, avg yearly rainfall 41.91 in, zone 6b

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posted 12 years ago

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I think this is an interesting idea. I think well-monitored havahart traps would be best.

You can bleed them out when you kill them, use thick gloves!

Our cats have gotten tapeworm from fleas before, I might worry about that sort of thing.

I applaud the experiment and the nice closed loop. I wonder how much meat is on these critters. How would you prepare them? Are you experienced in butchering?

Kelly Smitherson

Posts: 46

posted 12 years ago

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Okay, so I used to work at a reptile sanctuary, and we only fed dead rats to our reptiles- to avoid injury to the reptiles. Rats are heck of fighters
So, most use CO2 to kill the rats, some freeze them, and some break their necks
if you buy from a pre-killed rat supplier they will most likely have been killed with CO2

hope that helps! Good luck!

one concern I would have is if your neighbor poisons rats, and you feed a poisoned rat to one of your critters

Xisca Nicolas

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Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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Matu Collins wrote:Our cats have gotten tapeworm from fleas before, I might worry about that sort of thing.
How would you prepare them? Are you experienced in butchering?

All cats around already have tapeworm!

Well, I know how to cut a chicken into pieces well, or a rabbit....
At the moment i think it will be an "intermediary food" to other critters...
...because I have started raw food, it suits me greatly!
But the only meat I eat at the moment is beef, and once a young rabbit.

Xisca Nicolas

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Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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Kelly Smitherson wrote:Rats are heck of fighters
So, most use CO2 to kill the rats, some freeze them, and some break their necks
one concern I would have is if your neighbor poisons rats, and you feed a poisoned rat to one of your critters

Yes, fight was my original concern...
I heard about CO2 in a cuy topic, and I would like to know how this can be done at home level.
How can I produce it?
How to keep tight etc...

About poison... Yes I think about it too.
I just have the idea that rats might be territorial and stay at their place?
Am I so sure to get some from the neighborhood?

Is the poison only in the guts?
Or also in the meat?
Can it harm black soldier flies?

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Matu Collins

Posts: 1947

Location: Southern New England, seaside, avg yearly rainfall 41.91 in, zone 6b

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posted 12 years ago

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I meant that the cats get the tapeworm from the rodents because they eat them, so if you eat them you would be exposed.

Xisca Nicolas

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Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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Ok, I understand what you meant!
Cats do not eat rats but mice they do!
But do they get the worm from meat or from fleas...?

Do they get the same type of tape-worm as us?
(there is even a cat's form of the worm and a dog's type! Worms have varieties adapted to the host....)

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Kelly Smitherson

Posts: 46

posted 12 years ago

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So, there are obviously a lot of different poisons out there
one of the big ones used out here is certainly a serious issue if animals eat a rat infected with it
this particular one works by depleeating vitamin K in the rat, the blood vessels fail, internal bleeding spreads and spreads from one system to the next, and since the blood is what is infected, and we treated too many terriers at the vet clinic from getting poisoned rats, yeah, it is not good for them- but it is fixable with giving the cat/dog vit K antidote basically

another common poison works is the one that makes a gas build up in the rat- now if a cat eats the rat it might be okay-- unless it gets to the poisoned gas in the rat- then it is really SOL unless you catch it in time to make it vomit it back up, otherwise it is too late for the cat

another one works by elevating levels and making all the internal organs calcify... but I can not remember what the affect on cats/dogs is on this- sorry

AND some poisons are combinations of a couple of these, and I am sure there are more as well too

Xisca Nicolas

pollinator

Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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Kelly Smitherson wrote:another one works by elevating levels and making all the internal organs calcify... but I can not remember what the affect on cats/dogs is on this- sorry

This is a sort of Vit D and it is cholecalciferol (as far as I remember... Should be D3...)
Death is slow (one week) and more natural. So good a roduct that I have seen it stopped and cannot find it any more!

This is SAFE for cats and dogs.
I had a dog who ate the whole tin of the product and it was not affected at all!

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

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