Deep well Pump choices

Hi there.  Started our Homestead 1.5 yr back.  On a well.  Its in the middle of the driveway lol , a bit inconvenient. But it works.  Our challenge is this I am trying to buy a Deep Well HAND pump.  Our well is 225'.  I have looked at the Bison Pump & the Simple Pump.  https://www.bisonpumps.com/product-category/pump-systems/  . And this is the Simple Pump.https://simplepump.com/our-pumps/hand-operated/deep-well-pump/.  Currently we are running on the grid until our renovations and building are done because I have trades here with tools that need lots of recharging.  Once the work is done want to attempt to go solar.  We want to have a hand pump that requires no electricity from the grid or the solar system.

These HAND pumps are very expensive.  I live in Canada so with exchange rate excise taxes, shipping etc. etc.  whatever else the Canadian gov. can figure out to put on top of all that its about $5000.00 to get one here.

So here's the question.  Ta da at last.  Do any of you have experience with either of these pumps or any other deep well pump and can speak to how effective they are or do any of you know of an alternative system that is not so costly.

All advice appreciated.

Remember this is a BACKUP HAND PUMP to add to our regular pumping system.  

Thank you.  Aeriol

Thank you for posing this question.  I have a similar question except for the fact that I'm at a little more than 300' and thinking of going to 500'.  I've also been looking at the same hand pumps that you are.  Although I live in the US, I still need some comments from people who have used these.  I'm apparently at the deep end of things at 300', but it's supposed to work.  If I may I'd like to ask the viewers of this thread to report the deepest that they have gone with experience and if there are alternatives that have not yet been considered on this thread.  Have you had any testimonials from someone who has actually used one at a deep depth?  So far I haven't met anyone who has told me about their experiences.

Thank you for starting this thread.

I have a Bison pump, but a shallow well version. Nonetheless I will share my experience.
My water level was 4 m in summer and can be less after the rains. I installed stainless 3/4" extension pipe, 6 m long. I have this pump since 2014. It stopped working in 2019. Despite so called lifetime warranty it still needs maintenance - new seals. I don't have time to replace them, because currently I would gain nothing. Water in my well gets salty (especially after the heavy rains) and I have to pump out first 100 gallons to get to quality water. Doing it every time with a hand pump would kill the operator.
The pump is made very well -  a serious product from 304 stainless and properly welded. It's a pleasure to look at it.
I purchased it with a pressurizing kit thinking that it could pressurize my pressure tank. It can not and I think this kit is not designed for it. I paid around $450 in 2014. I think the deep well is around $2000. It's very expensive, but at the same time it can pump from very deep well which makes it unique in the world.

Can you use an air compressor or maybe a bike pump to fill a portable air tank? It should be possible to build a cheap airlift style pump that would work with a small compressor or even a bike pump, though I haven't built one for a bike pump yet. With my setup a half hp compressor gives me more than 2 gpm.  Well is about 300ft with water at 150ft or so. With a larger compressor I can get close to 5gpm.  Both of these examples are around 50pct duty cycle on compressor and I don't have any check valves, just a brass elbow to insert airline into water line about 10 ft above the bottom of the water pipe.

My water return pipe is 3/4", airline is 3/8.  For a lower power air source like a hand pump I'd reverse the flow, making the larger pipe the air pipe. The smaller pipe would need a check valve right above the junction of the two pipes, and making the pipe diameter smaller will help keep the psi required down. The water intake below the junction needs a check valve too. Now adding air pressure on top of the larger airline pushes down on the water in the pipe, and the two check valves only let the water escape up the water return pipe. Once the air reaches down to the junction, if you have enough pressurized air you can keep pushing and most of the water should get pushed to the surface - not sure if this is feasible with a hand pump though. If you instead purge the airline, water will flood back in from the bottom and then you can re-pressurize the airline again, pushing another load of water up to water line.

I've been wanting to build one like this but haven't started collecting the parts yet. My current one is great, have used it for a few years and made one just like it for the neighbors.

Thank you Cristobal Did the Bison pump people make a claim that you could pump water to your pressure tank or was that something you just guessed at?
I have been talking today with the Simple Pump people.  They are claiming I can pump to my pressure tank.  No way to know if that is correct and it might be impossible to do here in my very cold winters.
Thank you for the info it is very useful for my process and it was the most important question currently in my mind about buying a pump system.

Joyce,

I don't remember exactly - it was over 7 years ago. They list the attachment as something that can pressurize the pressure tank and I think they confirmed it over the phone. I I have made all the stainless pipes connections for the well myself and added a reducing tee with a valve, so I could pressurize the tank. Later when I tried to do it, the pump started to leak as the counter pressure in tank could not be overcome by the pump. Later I talked to someone in their technical department about it and they said - "this way it will not work" or something like that and it made me realize that their definition of pressurizing a pressure tank is different thank a regular human would know. It may be some form (maybe not intentional) of some sales bait. Maybe the deep well pump would have more pressure to do it, but my would definitely be destroyed if I kept pumping against the 38 PSI 80 Gal tank. Maybe for them a simple gravity tank is what they mean - could it be pressurized? Yes. Does it generate pressure (by gravity)? Yes. For regular people who have their own wells a pressure tank is just a tank with an inflated balloon inside that creates pressure, and stores water.

Thank you Cristobal. I will forward this to my well guy to hear his thoughts on it. I will also question the Simple Pump people to hear what they have to say. Simple Pump sent me some written info so I think that would make it a bit more credible..I am leaning towards their pump, but would love to speak to someone’s who has had one for a period of time.

Thank you Al Aric.  I couldn’t figure out how to post directly to you. I am new to posting here. I have a similar issue. I know no one who has this type of deep pump and they are very expensive..also I am in Northern Ontario in Canada so this morning it was -38 degrees which could freeze up a hand pump.  My well guy says my well is 225’ but the water is gushing from the 40 ft level so there is no need to go down to the 225’. Which saves a good bit of money on the pump. Don’t know if you’re aware of level your water starts at but potentially this could help.  Simple Pump has suggested we go down to 54’ in case the water table should change.

So far I am finding Simple Pump more responsive, helpful & knowledgeable. Couldn’t get as good a response at Bison. I will post here the results of all our deliberations and due to frozen ground here we will not be able to install the pump until early or mid May I believe.  However final outcomes may not be known until after the winter of 2023.

Hi Buster. Thanks for That. I must admit to not really understanding it all.  I’m not a technical person myself. I will pass it along to my well person for his thoughts. As mentioned my well is in the middle of the driveway. A bad spot. So all solutions must be pretty sleek.

I have Zoeller submersible well pump model #1450-0010 2 wire version and I want to power this AC pump using solar so I can quit paying my 40 minimum monthly electric bill here in Missouri. Also soon I will be on a limited income of SS of about 1000 dollars a month. It sounds like the most expensive part may be the inverter.
I do have a 2021 Toyota Prius and it has a high voltage battery as since it is a hybrid. I did not know if I could run my water well off of it. Any ideas?    

Joyce, I noted you are concerned about the pump freezing when its -38 deg.
Is it possible to have the pump drain itself to below the freeze line?
Of course in winter it may freeze as soon as you pump, but does it happen now anyway?
Can you move your drive so the well is not a hazard?

Bethany, IMO the $40 electricity bill will be much less cost than any solar system.
Have you thought of that?

John Daley raised a good point.  My hand pump is self draining.

John C Daley wrote:Joyce, I noted you are concerned about the pump freezing when its -38 deg.
Is it possible to have the pump drain itself to below the freeze line?
Of course in winter it may freeze as soon as you pump, but does it happen now anyway?
Can you move your drive so the well is not a hazard?

I have the simple pump. On the last section of pipe before it reaches the top, you drill a weep hole below the frost level so no water stays in the pump.  It takes like 5 pumps and you have water at the spigot again.

You o the original poster, the simple pump works good. The solar upgrade motors to it are a gimmick and do not work correctly.

The property I bought 22 years ago had a well that the previous owner said he removed 160 feet of old pump pipe and sucker rod from. The property is off grid and I planned to use it mostly for fruit trees and gardening. Thank goodness I found the simplepump.

The smaller version of the simplepump was pretty expensive with just the hand lever but I thought it was worth the cost. after finding the actual water level in the well, I ordered it with 12 sections of 9 foot pipe and and that got me about 20 feet under my water level.

Hand pumping worked fine but I could not stand there and pump water all day so I purchased the 12 volt dc motor sytem which back then used a scotch yoke system to run the pump. I would, and still do to this day, use 12 volt deep cycle batteries connected with alligator clips and can pump hundreds of gallons on one charge. Bringing the batteries home and charging them up is slightly annoying but well worth it. I've also hooked it up to a garden tractor or car in a pinch.

Not too long after I bought the pump one of the fiberglass sucker rods experienced a broken end fitting. Simplepump was great and sent me out a replacement no charge. I also ordered another 9 foot section of pipe and rod to make it worth their while and get a bit deeper down the well. The only other problem is the magnets inside the gear motor eventually came loose and started leaking gear fluid. I was able to take it apart, re-glue the magnets back in place and get it sealed up again instead of buying a new $400 motor. That was probably 8-10 years ago and I pump a few thousand gallons a season with it. I pump into a couple shipping totes and gravity feed through hoses mostly. I have used it in freezing weather and the weephole worked great.

I bought the simplepump so long ago that they didn't have records anymore when I called them last year for some replacement parts. The company has been sold to a long time employee and I got great service and upgraded parts that they have learned through experience over the years. The owner Steve even gave me an extra scotch yoke attachment since mine is showing use and they have since moved to a linear drive bearing system for the motorized systems.

I've been very happy and would recommend simplepump to anyone. At around 120 feet now, I'm not as deep as you and don't have another pump in the well to contend with. Not exactly your situation but my experience none the less.

One option for a DIY deep well pump is the "SlapShot" - so called because it uses a hockey puck as stock for one of the internal parts, along with a bunch of standard hardware store parts.
http://www.clean-water-for-laymen.com/well-hand-pump.html

 

You can download the PDF build instructions from that page.  As drawn, it uses PVC pipe for the pump cylinder and sucker rod.  If you don't want plastic in your water supply, brass or stainless tubing could be used for the cylinder, with minor adjustments, I think.  The salient benefits of the plastic pipe for the designers was ready global availability and low first cost.  As of the writing of the plans, cost was estimated at $45US.  I'd guess about double that now, or roughly the same price as a new sand point at my local hardware store.

They also have hand lever plans for actuating pump sucker rods elsewhere on the site.  If you are mechanically inclined, a pump jack could be rigged to power actuate the hand lever.  They have treadle actuator plans, too.

In the interest of full disclosure, I haven't built one, since I don't need a deep well pump, right now.  But, it's in the big stash of stuff, in case I ever do need to build one.

Have you ever considered capturing rainwater instead
of dealing with pumps and wells?

Kevin Olson wrote:One option for a DIY deep well pump is the "SlapShot" - so called because it uses a hockey puck as stock for one of the internal parts, along with a bunch of standard hardware store parts.
http://www.clean-water-for-laymen.com/well-hand-pump.html

 

You can download the PDF build instructions from that page.  As drawn, it uses PVC pipe for the pump cylinder and sucker rod.  If you don't want plastic in your water supply, brass or stainless tubing could be used for the cylinder, with minor adjustments, I think.  The salient benefits of the plastic pipe for the designers was ready global availability and low first cost.  As of the writing of the plans, cost was estimated at $45US.  I'd guess about double that now, or roughly the same price as a new sand point at my local hardware store.

They also have hand lever plans for actuating pump sucker rods elsewhere on the site.  If you are mechanically inclined, a pump jack could be rigged to power actuate the hand lever.  They have treadle actuator plans, too.

In the interest of full disclosure, I haven't built one, since I don't need a deep well pump, right now.  But, it's in the big stash of stuff, in case I ever do need to build one.

This is great. The type of thing I want to waste money on building just because it's cool even though I don't need it right now. I will resist but it goes in the archive for future reference. Thank you for that!

John C Daley wrote:Have you ever considered capturing rainwater instead
of dealing with pumps and wells?

I have. A few problems for my location. I don't live there. There are no structures. Can't fart without a permit from the county. Often when water is needed it's because it hasn't rained for long time.

Ideally I would rent some equipment and create strategically located ponds and the collected rainwater could do some good for everything.

The well casing was there. Can't imagine how I would feel if I had looked at it unused this whole time.

I guess in your case, the well may be best but perhaps store it in 5000 gal tanks.
Having dams will simply allow it to disappear through evaporation or seepage.