Irrigation questions

Hi all.

I'm new here and just starting to learn about permaculture. I'm hoping to turn part of my property (just under 2 acres, mostly woods) into a food forest to feed my family and help my neighbors as well. However, at this point just getting my vegetable garden to cooperate has been a challenge.

I'm not new to gardening. I've been playing in the dirt since I was a small child. But after moving into this house three years ago, it's been a struggle.

There are some smallish raised beds on the east side of the house. The former owner had a virtual jungle of tomatoes, peppers, onions, and a few other things. I was impressed with how beautifully her veggies were growing.

The following year I planted my own garden and was very disappointed. I got 2 tomatoes (so much for canning) and a handful of peppers. Last year was just as bad.

We've had very dry weather here in Wisconsin so I feel that part of the problem is water. I'm not fond of just running a sprinkler because I feel like it wastes a lot of water.

I'm looking for some ideas for irrigation that are not just effective, but cheap. I'd love to see what you all think. 🙂

Thanks!
Kat

Hi Kat!

I am going to be dealing with the same problems as my next garden is very dry.

One thing I used which worked well for me when growing veggies in an arid part of Australia was leaky pipe. It's a black hose made from recycled tires that slowly leaks water along its entire length. It can be cut to the length of the raised bed and placed under mulch, then attached to a standard hosepipe trickling water in. Uses far less water than a sprinkler, no water is wasted, and evaporation is reduced. For small beds gardened intensively, I found leaky pipe my best option.

My new garden is much bigger so I need to try other techniques. I recently read "Water Wise Vegetables" by Steve Solomon (free online) who uses no irrigation by doing the opposite of intensive farming - widely spacing plants, dust mulching, and growing drought-tolerant varieties. But his situation is the Pacific Northwest where heavy winter rains recharge the water in the soil, which my garden won't have (it gets an inch or so a month all year round), so I'm not sure I'll get the same results.

I think my garden will need other local methods of delivering water like ollas, wicking, and deep pipes. There are some good threads in Permies covering dryland gardening and discussing alternatives to sprinklers.

Something similar to what Jane suggested is a "soaker hose".  We buy ours a Harbor Freight where they are fairly cheap.  

Maybe some soil building would help.

Wood chips, compost tea, coffee grounds are the first ones I like to recommend.  Sometimes these can all be had for free.

These threads might be of interest to you or others:

https://permies.com/t/77536/wonderful-world-water-soil-plants

https://permies.com/t/120453/Great-Wood-Chips

https://permies.com/t/123928/Growing-Plants-builds-soil-health

These are from Dr. Bryant Redhawk's soil series:

https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil

Thank you both for the suggestions! 🙂

Hi Kat,

Welcome to Permies.

Thank you, John.

Kathleen, I would highly recommend hugel trenches.  Once you've done this, even in a raised bed, its effects will last for a couple years if the wood is small.  The bigger the wood, the longer the effects last.  Dead wood is best, almost dead wood is next, and green wood can be mixed with dead wood.  I don't use pine with pitch in it.  Red cedar has growth inhibitors, but will eventually break down over time.

Hugel is about burying wood that will stay wet under the soil, grow fungi, and roots of all plants love that.   Dig a trench maybe 1 1/2 -2 shovel blades deep (or more if you get into it,) fulled with branches/limbs, manure, leaves, mowed weeds/grass.  Be sure to fill in around the wood with soil so there are no air gaps.  Water it down well, or soak the wood overnight before you put it in.  Fill back in with soil, then composted manure from a bag you can get at a big DIY store.  

Check the ingredients in any bagged soil "amendments," and try not to get ones that say "forest products" as the first ingredient.  That's not soil, and it might slow things down.  Wood absorbs nitrogen, which breaks it down over time, which is good in the long run, but vegetables need the nitrogen when you plant them.  

Eventually forest products will help the soil, but it could take a year or more.  If "forest products"  bags are all you can find, then put a 2" layer of this on top of the soil, don't work it in.  These can make good mulch on top, and will eventually be broken down by soil critters and incoporated in a good way..

Then, 4" or so of mulch, leaves, wood chips, etc.  Don't let the sun get on the soil and it won't dry out.  Mulch will get damp from condensation overnight and hold that moisture against the soil, which helps keep the soil below it, and the wood damp.

To keep your spirits up, try a 5-10-5 organic fertlizer every two weeks.  The middle number encourages flowers on tomatoes and peppers.  

Keep an eye out for birds eating pepper flowers.  They pretty much strip my plants if I don't protect them.  Check to see if you have a healthy honey bee population in your neighborhood so the tomatoes and other vegetables get pollinated.  There are other pollinators, but if you have enough honey bees you'll have enough of the others, too.

We've had big droughts on the West Coast, and I am constantly amazed at what this wood does under the soil, or even in contact with the soil.  Worms will come up and help, soil critters will flourish.  

Hi Kathleen, welcome to Permies.

I want to start off by saying that I agree with everything that Cristo just pointed out.  I have also used wood chips to enhance my soil to good effect.

Since you are in Wisconsin, is your soil the light, sandy stuff I remember from my family?  If so, wood chips can really help that out.  Personally I grow almost exclusively in woodchips at this point and if you want to do something similar, I can walk you through some options.

Finally, if you think you need some actual irrigation, there are some drip systems that you can add that can do a wonderful job.  They are affordable as well.

Well in!

Eric

Hi Kathleen, Welcome!  Be encouraged as it seems growing goes in cycles. I'm also in the dry Calif foothills and the last couple years have given poor production possibly due to the drought and also to the late frosts we've had.  I rely on woodchips (aged) to keep the soil moisture in and it does help. The soaker hoses or "leaky hose" that others mentioned will also work until they are old an burst large slots/holes in them and then you loose a lot of water in that spot and the rest of the hose stays dry. I guess it's not frugal to use old hose (rubber decay).  I've seen people make their own slow drip hose from PVC pipe that they drill tiny holes in about 6 inches apart.  Seems like a lot of work to set up but it would last longer.  I've thought about making my own version of "ollas" using leaky plastic bottles or water jugs buried part way in the soil. Fill and cap them and they should drip out slowly over a few days.

Thanks so much everyone for the wonderful information!

I have been reading about hugel beds as I have a huge oak that had to be cut down last year (right next to the pond and we worried about damage from falling branches). Broke my heart to cut it down because it was so beautiful but it got oak wilt which is a big problem here.

The problem is that it's huge and the beds are not lol So I'd have to find a way to completely rebuild the beds. I may, instead, create additional beds if I can plan it out. Planning is my problem. I wish I had someone who could come over and help me figure out the best way to utilize and lay out my small property.

Regarding the soil, it's actually pretty good. But it can always benefit from more organic materials. I add compost each year.

I hope this year's cycle brings plenty of rain! LOL Even though we are on a well, it's difficult to keep watering everything. Of course we have lots of ornamental plants as well that need water. The house was beautifully landscaped when we bought it. It's funny because I've always been the type of person to only plant what I can eat. But I am learning so much about these ornamentals. Some are even medicinal, which is exciting to me as an herbalist. 🙂

I like the idea of creating new beds to use the oak tree.

I also want to second Eric's suggestion about wood chips.

There are lots of benefits from using wood chips.

Wood chips as a mulch will help keep water from evaporating.

As the wood chips break down nutrients are added back to the soil.

https://permies.com/t/120453/Great-Wood-Chips

If wood chips are not available there are other options for things to use as mulch.

This thread has a video with some suggestions for mulch with plant residues and living mulch techniques:

https://permies.com/t/211919/minerals-garden-performance

Anne, I do quite a bit of mulching. I don't even want to think about how bad it would be if I didn't. 🤦‍♀️ Maybe I've just been having a rough patch. My fingers are crossed that this year is better!

Even though the last couple of years have been bad, I'm super excited to get my garden started this year. I have plans to put in more medicinal herbs, and I want to experiment with companion planting to deter pests. I belive a major reason for so few tomatoes is that the squirrels keep eating them. It's a good thing those things are cute! I don't think I have ever lived anywhere with so many squirrels! But that may be the subject for another post. 😊

Kathleen,

If the problem is ultimately that you just plain don't have enough water, consider the dripline irrigation I mentioned above.  I have used one of these before and they irrigate wonderfully with an absolute minimum of water as there is no spray.  There is a little kit you can buy from a company called Dripworks.com.

All that being said, after I really got my woodchips going, I found I hardly needed any irrigation, even in our blistering summer heat.  I am familiar with Wisconsin weather and there is some room to work with there.  But if you just need additional water, I think that dripline irrigation is the way to go.

Eric

Kathleen Marshall wrote:Even though the last couple of years have been bad, I'm super excited to get my garden started this year. I have plans to put in more medicinal herbs, and I want to experiment with companion planting to deter pests. I belive a major reason for so few tomatoes is that the squirrels keep eating them. It's a good thing those things are cute! I don't think I have ever lived anywhere with so many squirrels! But that may be the subject for another post. 😊

Something that will serve as a mulch and deter pests is sweet alyssum.  This plant gives the garden a wonderful sweet smell too.

I did not realize how much it help until dear hubby removed it because he did not like it because the plant is taller than he wanted.

Weeks later I pick the scraps up and found the ground underneath was wet.

French Marigolds are also good to deter pests.

Anne Miller wrote:Something that will serve as a mulch and deter pests is sweet alyssum.  This plant gives the garden a wonderful sweet smell too.

I did not realize how much it help until dear hubby removed it because he did not like it because the plant is taller than he wanted.

Weeks later I pick the scraps up and found the ground underneath was wet.

French Marigolds are also good to deter pests.

Great information! Thank you! 😊

A message just came in my email box which may be helpful to you Kathleen.  This is the video link: https://www.groworganic.com/blogs/videos/drip-irrigation-part-1-set-up-at-the-faucet?variation=B&_kx=gYXKsqaeKkdesxWaFLoc12u1Q7pbFDUw0JsCHDFVxsk%3D.WUmWyJ  and these are the comments;
If you are setting up your drip irrigation system for your garden or yard, there are many things to consider when choosing the type of irrigation you want to use.

Drip systems can comprise drip tape, emitterline, soaker hose, drip emitters, or a combination. Drip tape is a good choice if you are watering straight, flat rows. You must put a pressure reducer on your drip tape system unless you have a low-pressure system. If your property has a slope, you may want to use emitterline (which works best with higher pressure).

A soaker hose is excellent if you want to wind it around your landscape plants (not sharp curves). Drip emitters can be plugged into 1/2” poly or attached to 1/4” poly and run to your plants. There are so many options with drip irrigation; check out our selection to choose the right system for you.  Peaceful Valley Farm and Garden Supply at GrowOrganic.com

Thank you, Denise! That's very helpful. 🙂

We are in a arid part of australia and run sprinklers for both home gardens and the lawn.
The company i work for does a lot of irrigation projects as well as for home services.
If you can i suggest having a look at a company called naandanjain and then under there products micro sprinklers.
We use the modular sprinkler head which attach to a 60cm stake with tube and than you conect it into like 13mm or 19mm low density poly tube which im sure you can get like from a home depot store.
To get the end of the stake into the poly tube you will need to obtain a hole punch and were using the 360° with a water use of apx 105lt an hour.
Covering the soil is a thick layer of rice straw as its easy to obtain in my area and we only need to water about every 3rd day for between 30 to 60 mins as the soil is still wet under the straw.
The front garden did have different micro sprinklers but i replaced them all for the naandanjain brand as if some dirt is in the line as we dont have a filter being on town water its just simply a case of pulling off the head and run the hose for about 30 seconds to clear the line and to check the head for any dirt or rubbish that might have been caught up in it.
The poly tube just sits ontop of the garden bed and weaves its way through the front garden area and other then changing the sprinklers to this type over the past 9 months i really havent had any issues.
As for the lawn pop up sprinklers well thats a different issue all together and need to get somebody in to have a look at 2 sprinklers that are currently not working too well and look at what we can replace them with maybe a updated model of what we currently have in the lawn.

Kathleen Marshall wrote:Hi all.

I'm new here and just starting to learn about permaculture. I'm hoping to turn part of my property (just under 2 acres, mostly woods) into a food forest to feed my family and help my neighbors as well. However, at this point just getting my vegetable garden to cooperate has been a challenge.

I'm not new to gardening. I've been playing in the dirt since I was a small child. But after moving into this house three years ago, it's been a struggle.

There are some smallish raised beds on the east side of the house. The former owner had a virtual jungle of tomatoes, peppers, onions, and a few other things. I was impressed with how beautifully her veggies were growing.

The following year I planted my own garden and was very disappointed. I got 2 tomatoes (so much for canning) and a handful of peppers. Last year was just as bad.

We've had very dry weather here in Wisconsin so I feel that part of the problem is water. I'm not fond of just running a sprinkler because I feel like it wastes a lot of water.

I'm looking for some ideas for irrigation that are not just effective, but cheap. I'd love to see what you all think. 🙂

Thanks!
Kat