Let's talk tomatoes

Like almost everyone who grows a garden I grow tomatoes. Being a serial gardener I'm always looking for ways to grow it better. Besides Permies ( my most reliable source) I spend a lot of time on YouTube. The wealth of information can make my head explode. I want to ask what you do or don't do in your gardens?

* Do you direct sow? If you plant transplants do you plant at soil level, deeper than it was in the pot, or sideways?
* Do you prune? Single stem, or just the suckers?
* How do you water?
* Do you fertilize?
* How do you support your tomatoes?
* Do you plant all your tomatoes together, on mix it up?
* Any special companions?
*What's your secret to amazing tomatoes?
* Do you do some of those things like dissolve aspirin in water, and spray on the leaves, or use Epsom salt, or any other unusual things,?
I'm interested in answers to these questions. If you post please don't feel like you have to answer every question, I'll enjoy what ever you want to share.

I'll go first I'm in zone 9b N. CA. So I have a very long hot dry summer season. I start my seeds in the house, then move them to my little greenhouse, then transplant into the garden once the night time temps are 50 or above. I did  manage to direct sow some in the garden last year. They did well, but took a lot longer to produce, and didn't out perform the ones I started earlier. I always used remove the bottom sets of leaves and plant deep. This year I read that slowed production down, so I didn't do it. I think I'm already regretting it. All my tomatoes are falling over and seem to need a lot of support. Usually I only have to worry about that once it gets kinda tall.  I add my fertilizer mix( what ever organic stuff I have, like blood, bone meal, azamite, greensand, biolive) twice a year when I transition from winter to spring, and summer to fall when I also add compost. I add a little of the mix to the bottom of the hole, and then soil then a bit of mycorrhiza. I strongly believe creating great soil is more important than fertilizing ( all my raised beds are hugel beet style) I usually grows indeterminate. The last couple of years I have been trying tomatoes that are supposed to do well in hot dry climate. I use tomato cages my son made for me that are awesome. That's about it for me. I water when I think it needs it when it's in the 100s that can be every day. I don't prune sometimes I remove suckers, but most of the time I don't get around to it. The last couple of years I did remove the flowers until the tomato got to a good size. I don't fertilize during the growing season, I tried compost tea in the past, but I didn't really think it made a difference. I definitely mix it up tomatoes go in every bed ( I have major gopher problem, so I only grow in raised beds,) lots of companions. Always basil, near by are always nasturtiums, marigolds, zinnias, radish, and all sorts of veggies, fruit, herbs and flowers. Bye August it's a jungle.  I usually get tomatoes, the last couple of years better than most for me. Is it because of something I'm doing, or just luck, I don't know, time will tell. The last couple of years I have gotten a lot of tomatoes, and my husband says they taste great (I don't like tomatoes unless they are used for cooking) I don't get production like I see on the Internet where the vines have mass amounts of tomatoes. I'm happy with what I have been getting, but always strive to learn more.  Thanks

Did I miss  the mention of determinate and indeterminate?

Bush tomatoes (Determinate) vs vine tomatoes (Indeterminate).

Tomatoes are like trees I hear. The deeper you bury them and the taller the trellis for them to wind up. Keep up with the pruning and they will really thrive.

I mostly direct sow, rain fed occasional watering. I sow seeds in new moon time, transplant from the store during a waning moon. The direct sow roots seems a lot stronger. Although I get impatient and go buy few plants. Garden teaches me patience Im thankful for that haha.

Yes Epsom salt. Bury a fish before I transplant. I grow them with basil and marigolds and blueberries they seem to like that.

They love to climb though I try make a long trellis. This year I plan on using plants as living trellis. Ie wheat grass, moringa, sunflower. I'll see how that goes.

I usually grow indeterminate. I don't want all my tomatoes at one time.  Maybe someday in the future if I get a freezer, or have time to can I will plant some determinate tomatoes. For now I'll deal with the large vines to get tomatoes all summer and fall for me.

Usually seedlings,  first 2 leaves removed and planted deep to encourage more roots.  Side dressing of epsom salt.   Waste fleece buried under planting area - hopefully it will absorb 'excess' water so the plants dont wilt when it gets over 100 degrees.   Stick and string trellis provided for support (it gets a bit windy) and mulch. Side shoots pruned off (mostly)  or I just let 'em go.  (side shoots can be placed in water till roots form, then plant out into the garden, spreading the fruiting season a bit. For the last two seasons, drought has been against me, so not as many fruits as there could have been.  Fertilizer - compost or a seaweed based liquid brew. I usually grow the bushy sort, and I tried the cocktail tomatoes, but the birds liked them too much ;(  Cocktail black Russian variety, tastiest, and the birds didn't seem to notice them.

I had 4 tomato plants last year 2 cherry tomatoes and 2 normal sized ones, fertilizers were alpacawool/chickenblood/ powdered limestone. I could not eat all the produce from that so gave some kilo's away to neighbours .

Rough estimate would be around 30kg through the season from those 4 plants.

P.S. they were grown in containers, i'm in zone 8.

I'll give you the highlights of my process.

* Do you direct sow? If you plant transplants do you plant at soil level, deeper than it was in the pot, or sideways?
I plant starts in my gardens. I just make a hole and pop it in at soil level or deeper. My grandfather has always planted them sideways but I always get a good harvest just getting them into the ground. I however get a bunch of volunteers every year out of my beds. It is getting to the point I don't have to plant cherry tomatoes ever again!

* Do you prune? Single stem, or just the suckers?
No pruning.

* How do you water?
Most years, the tomatoes do fine with just rain. If we get a hot spell, I just water with a multi-pattern hose sprayer for a bit.

* Do you fertilize?
Compost every year.

* How do you support your tomatoes?
I use traditional tomato cages because I have a bunch.

* Do you plant all your tomatoes together, on mix it up?
I plant my tomatoes in groups spaced for the cages. Tomatoes can spread and block light for other plants in my experience.

* Any special companions?
Nothing special. I tend to grow marigolds, dill, tomatillos, together with tomatoes with success. I've had balsam flowers as well do good with tomatoes.

*What's your secret to amazing tomatoes?
Finding types that grow vigorously for your climate. There are a BUNCH of tomato varieties on the market but they don't all do well in my local climate. I have found a variety of types that do well in my local climate. My next step is to work towards a landrace variety that gives juicy reliable tomatoes.

* Do you do some of those things like dissolve aspirin in water, and spray on the leaves, or use Epsom salt, or any other unusual things,?
I do nothing special. If the plant is lackluster for reasons that I can't correct through observation, I tend to cull and let the thriving plants grow out.

I plant starts for medium-large tomatoes and seed cherry tomatoes.

I use folding cages for everything except the 2 largest Brandywine starts, I have 2 huge circular cages for those. I was going to make folding cages from hog panels this year, then found them for $5 each at Job Lots and bought a bunch. I don't expect to ever need them again. I wanted folding because of being old/cutting down the needed storage.

I lay the starts down about 1/3  of their stem length, after I remove the appropriate leaves. I had a booklet, "All About Tomatoes" from Dick Raymond, where i got the idea, years ago and have followed it ever since. If I'd had decent soil to begin with, I might not have used the technique to make larger root systems. But my veggie garden sits atop our sand septic field, and continuously drains nutrients ....

I water with a hose, usually in the early morning or evening. I've been looking into getting ollas, but haven't yet. I think it's an adaptation that may be needed in the future.

Corrected title: Gardens for All Book of Tomatoes

I grow my tomatoes only in winter (9b) because the summer has pest pressure that the plants simply cannot survive. When I get a greenhouse I'll try again, but here in the open air it's just not possible. Even in winter, they need to be under cover to avoid black mold (but they will die from white mildew by the end of the season).
I grow them in big containers (big buckets), under my carport, from starts I grew from seed starting in the summer. It's cold, and the plants grow very slowly, yields are not super great but they're better than nothing. I try to put in a few cherries later than the rest, and with some luck they'll extend into spring (for some reason the pests don't bother the cherries as much). Since the plants are under cover all irrigation comes from me, I try to keep up on it.
I've tried every suggestion for powdery mildew, ultimately I just need to keep up with pruning. And I do try to keep up with suckers, but inevitably a few escape.

Ah and I tie them up, I string up cords from the carport roof. This keeps them out of dog reach (he likes to eat the leaves??) and in the fenced area.

I used to live in 9a around the Phoenix AZ area and grew everything in containers. I would mix plants in a single container, roots/leaves/fruit. Always a direct sow. I never started indoors in 9a. I would direct sow various plants all through the year. Succession cropping the roots like radishes and some beans, and leafy greens. Everything was grown together, so there could be tomatoes with beans and radishes or onions, and spinach or romaine, all in the same container.
Tomatoes were indeterminate types and would climb the chain link cage like a trellis. It became a jungle in that garden cage.





I would pick tomatoes all through November. I would over-winter some tomatoes and peppers, just cutting the plants back in December and let them go dormant. They seemed to grow back more vigorously the second and third years. I had tomatoes that were 8 feet tall and 4 feet in diameter. Peppers got 6 feet tall by the third year and were so heavy with fruit, I had to tie the branches up to the cage for support or they would break off.

Dealing with suckers went through a couple of different methods. I think the best method was leaving the first two suckers below the first flower cluster to form a second and third leader worked best. Any additional suckers would be allowed to form a flower cluster and then I would top the sucker. This appeared to make the plant form more suckers and more flowers. Sometimes a sucker would get missed and grow fairly big. These would get trimmed off and replanted to grow another plant.





What was my secret? Nothing special. I prepared my container soil with coir, organic fertilizer (Kellogg's), some blood meal, perlite, bone meal, and compost. Once a year I would add some more compost and keep going. If the soil level in a container got too low, add more soil mix using some organic store-bought soil. I think the real secret weapon to bountiful harvests, was water. Lots of it. I watered using sprinkler irrigation and during the peak summer months, they got watered 3X a day for about 15 minutes. That and the shade cloth over the garden cage. You can see the shade cloth in the jungle pics above.

I forgot to mention another problem  high temperature + very low humidity = dried out pollen = fewer tomatoes.   Even the bees can't solve this one.

Lets add my weird ones.

first picture is the original tomato float design

Next 2 are the 2nd generation design

Otherwise the goal typically is 8 to 12 varieties each year grown from seed.  Lean towards yellows and orange in the mid size.

C. Letellier wrote:Lets add my weird ones.

first picture is the original tomato float design

Next 2 are the 2nd generation design

Otherwise the goal typically is 8 to 12 varieties each year grown from seed.  Lean towards yellows and orange in the mid size.

That is a little weird, but still very intriguing. What was the intention behind the float system? Was it to avoid pests and predators? Saving space? How does it work?

Tomatoes are in our meals about 3x a week.

I put in approx 50 plants this year that I started in the house: 2 indeterminate cherry, 12 indeterminate Big Boy, the rest determinate Roma. The cherries are potted. The rest are in straw bales. The bales were put in place last November. Fertilizer was applied at least 6x through the winter. After the plants went in I apply compost tea every 2 weeks.

Last year I had just 10 plants and got maybe 48 quarts. I paid close attention to the plants and pruned suckers, unproductive stems, and leaves blocking airflow.  I intend to do the same this year.

The straw bales hold a huge amount of water. I do water lightly …maybe 3 cups per plant…if the plants look like they need it.

To plant the transplants I punch my fist into the bales down about a  6 inches, drop in the plant, and fill the hole with compost. Then I watered about a gallon per plant.  I checked each plant the following day, added more compost as needed, and watered again. On day 3 I added more compost if needed.

That's very interesting C. Letellier. Please tell us more. Does the raft have soil on it? Is it a natural way of using hydroponics? Your plants look very healthy, you must be doing something right.

Jen Fulkerson wrote:Your plants look very healthy, you must be doing something right.

Jen,

When I lived in the Midwest I only planted things and even with no care, no fertilizing no watering, no weeding I had abundant crops of everything. It's so easy in a right soil/climate - it's just on full automation. Here most of vegetables are "forbidden fruit" for me. It's too hot and dry or too cold at night.
Talking about tomatoes - I have - as usually - direct seeded them, supposedly heat loving cultivars. They were fertilized with composted sheep bedding, planted in the morning shade spot. Out of 60 seeds, only 8 germinated and out of these 8 only ONE tomato fruit was produced so far. I water them sometimes twice a day, they are mulched. Last year it was more successful as I had more tomato fruits, however they tasted awful which gave me a lesson than not everything produced at home garden will have superior qualities.
Next year I'm going to give it a last try and will try to set up some off-grid heating mat. Western civilization made us so addicted to tomatoes that it's difficult to follow the simple principle: "grow only what grows in your area, otherwise you will be frustrated".

Floating tomatoes.  First off they are in soil sort of and it wicks the water up.

I originally went at this completely backwards.  We had earth box wicking planters.  The had to be watered every couple of days and getting tired of that my thinking was what if I had a larger reservoir for them to draw on.  I had a couple of half sheets of 2 inch below grade rated waterproof foam.  used another scrap to create a 2 inch raised lip and punch 4 4" holes in the foam.  Covered it in landscape fabric.  First year used manure, leaves etc.  Worked but stayed to wet for the tomatoes to be healthy.  The supposedly waterproof foam wasn't and was partially waterlogged by fall when I pulled it.  Miracle grow potting soil was on a really good discount that fall.

Second year the foam was dried back out and the miracle grow worked better at staying drier to start the season.  Tomatoes did well early but by late in the season were turning yellow from overwatering.  Figured out 2 problems here.  1 raft gets way heavier when it sets fruit.  2.  The foam soaks up worse the second year.  It didn't act like it would be floating at the end of the third year so bought new foam for year 3.  The soil had been 2 inches deep at the edges and roughly 3 in the middle.

Third year I was going to beat the foam soaking up problem by putting a layer of fiberglass over the foam to keep the water out. After all surf boards survive for years in the water.  Big MISTAKE.  I used autobody resin.  Got my whole square covered in cloth and resin on the top side.  Looking good when I left.  Come back 2 or 3 hours later to find nearly all of my foam has melted and I have a huge gooey mess to clean up.  Bought more foam and went with just foam that year.  Only change in design was using a single 4" hole to water the 4 x 4 sheet.  Was still over watering by the end of the year.

4th year changed the plan slightly and put 50 or 60 lbs of rocks on the float.  The plan being as things started showing over watering problems I would remove rocks so it floated higher.  Worked well by year end but the Foam was still badly water logged by year end.  Started gathering 2 liter pop bottles to use as floats.  Played a little while taking the sheet out that fall and could see I was going to need some sort of corral to keep them under the foam.

5th year still didn't have enough pop bottles gathered so reused the foam.  Combined both squares into a 4 inch thick layer.  Still floated really low.  Had first animal damage problem.  The muskrats took to climbing up and sunning themselves and in the process smashing plants.  Did try a change though and used 2 liter bottles full of water instead of rocks to aid in starting the plants on the plastic covered float.(faux wall of water was the idea) worked fine and was probably easier to remove than the rocks

6th year had the  bottles gathered.  Used 4" schedule 40 to build the corral.  Sized width based on the pipes being close enough together to support the sides of the foam slightly.  Since I was using 10 foot joints that set my length  2 elbows plus nearly 4 feet to give an inside width of roughly 3' 10" so the foam was supported.  Rest went into length.  That was (7) 2 liter bottles long and (10) wide.   Nested the necks together in 3 double rows of bottles and one single row.  Tied the necks together with bale twine in case the waves got high enough to was some out of the corral.  It also kept them roughly located.  Used 2 4" holes for wicking just pushing the landscape fabric in the hole and filling with potting soil.(had to remove 2 bottles to allow it to reach the water)  To pressurize the bottles I froze them and capped them cold.   Worked well.  Biggest problem was plants growing out and setting tomatoes in the water.  Pond snail LOVE tomatoes in the water.  I grew 12 varieties on a roughly 4' x 6'+ float and never watered after transplant watering, never weeded and no animal trouble.  Because I had more buoyancy the soil was pile nearly twice as thick.   It really is the lazy mans way to grow tomatoes.  Major problem getting the float out of the water as that assembly is heavy and hard to handle and the bottles fall out as you try and drag it on shore .  Very happy with the results.  And because the water was constant virtually no cracking, blossom end rot or any of the common problems.  Did notice minor yellowing of the PVC so future goal protect it from the sun.

7th year because the foam was not in the water it was still good and dry.  To keep the tomatoes out of the water planted them all pointed to the middle rather than straight up.  Made a big jungle in the middle but by the time they grew back to the outside had almost no problems with tomatoes in the water. Tried reusing the potting soil.  First 2/3 of the summer it looked good but towards the end seeing signs of deficiencies.  Had coon trouble one night as the float had drifted under the pier and all they had to do was step down.  The plants were so thick they only really damage one corner worth.  Still considered it a success.  More than 2/3 of the bottles are still at least slightly pressured up when I pulled the float with 2 summers in the water.  Had left the float on the bank over winter and some cow came by and stepped on it breaking the foam

8th year covered the pipes with inside out cat food sacks with brown paper bags inside to protect from the sun.  Used new soil to prevent nutrient problems.  Everything looked great. Then suddenly all the tomatoes were developing little holes.  I thought they were tooth holes but I had no idea from what.  Finally put every trap of any kind that I owned on the float.(mouse, rat, leghold)  I could go all out because the float was surrounded by its moat to keep our cats safe  Caught a sparrow sized really long billed bird in a rat trap.  Figured it was collateral damage and bad luck.  A few days later caught a second bird  same species in a leg hold trap.(needless to say over kill)  But suddenly my damage stopped.  So the birds were the problem.  Problem that fall in that nobody was had that potting soil on special.  I had been buying on the super fall special to keep it affordable as this was taking (4) 2 cubic foot bags.  A $4 per bag it had been reasonable as I could reuse it on the garden later.  But couldn't get it so did nothing.  Most of the 2 liter bottles were getting soft or crushed so reset them that winter to pressure them back up.  Tried siliconing the caps on in hopes of needing it less often.  

9th year Bit the bullet and bought the high priced bags.(ouch).  Best year ever as we burned the cattails on the reservoir while the water was low and then the float drifted out into the cattail patch so it was totally surrounded by them growing on all sides.  Shade, wind break etc.  The plants were 6 feet tall and totally healthy by time to harvest and so totally grown into each other they couldn't fall down so they handled high winds really well when finally exposed.  I did have swim out to go cut a path to pull the float out of the surrounding cattails.  There is something so pleasing about pulling the float to the pier and simply laying down and picking.  Want the other side?  Turn the whole garden around the pick the other side without moving.  Most bottles still hard with pressure that fall.  Left the float on the pond to over winter figuring it should be safe there.  Still no discount on the potting soil.

10th year Tried to supplement with fertilizers etc and reuse potting soil.  Had problems getting results and had problems because I over treated and burned some plants.  Still really productive year.  Left it on the pond for winter again.  Mid winter a set of deer tracks is bounding along and lands on it.  By the time deer climbed out he had completely wrecked the foam

And given the expense to restart again I have been working towards growing my own potting soil and the third generation float design.  

1.  Being afraid of the PVC springing a leak I want it to have redundant float capability.  I have found that the 40 oz mayo, miracle whip, other salad dressing jars just fit the PVC.  So the plan is to seal a bunch of them and put in the pipe so if it ever leaks they should keep it floating.
2.  Want to change from a dome design for the cover plastic to a 2 layer design like a covered wagon.  Keep one layer at the float and bring the other out and hold it out from the float say 6 inches and drop it in the water for a total seal.(fuse it back to itself and fill with sand?)  This should give me a layer of warm water inside the 2nd layer to help hold the heat from the water.
3.  Want to build 2 bottle with nested neck wide assemblies with handles that hang over the pipe.  This will protect the PVC from sun with soil, give more grow area and if built right adds handles to set each section out while trapping the bottles do they can't fall out.  Create an inner tube flats skirt hanging over the pipes to protect them from the sun while putting a heat absorber in the water to help in the fall.
4.  To solve the soil.  Working on getting ready to produce aerobic no turn compost.  Have the comfrey and clover growing to be green matter.  Dry matter will be leaves and cattails and woody matter chipped wood and willows and raspberry stems.  And add some manure.  Still need to figure out how to get it hot enough to sterilize.  Got to get cost down and nutrient up.  Wondering if I can help some by getting the tomato plants surrounded by perennials like clover on the float.  Also studying how to get compost tea and make compost extract.

Other problems to solve.  I have high tech expensive answers but looking for cheaper low tech.  Want to solar heat the water in fall while keeping the covered tomatoes growing.  Thinking if I do it right I can keep them growing till early to mid november in an area with first frost usually first week in Sept.

Wow C. Letellier I really admire your tenacity. Way to keep working the problems until you achieve the results you are after.  You have a cool and unique way of growing tomatoes.

I love growing and eating tomatoes and I grow indeterminate cherry and slicing tomatoes each year. I am trying a few new procedures and they have been successful so far:

Seed starting in the "seed snail" to save room
Prep bed and plant cover crop to protect soil and hold nutrient
Keep secondary branches below 1st flower but remove all suckers from then on
Vertical stringing up to the 6 ft frame

I have 11 plants in this bed and they are so lush and vigorous, totally pest and disease free despite the excessive rain fall. I need to keep an eye on the nutrient need to keep them productive the entire season.

Let see...
I only start my own via volunteers.
My compost is full of cherry tomato seeds because I feed garbage picked tomatoes to my chickens.
I also have them in my yard from previous years and each year I add more cherry tomato varieties in hopes they cross breed.
Cherry tomatoes are good for fresh eating in salads and also for sauces and whole in cooked dishes.
Between those uses and their tenacious growing habits, they are my favorite tomatoes.
I do grow others, because a huge  slice of homegrown tomato is just amazing.


I buy in starts each year, but I would like to transition to winter sowing.
I grow indeterminate varieties with the shortest days to maturity I can find.
I will also buy really crappy tomatoes starts that have been in the pots too long.
I find that I can buy 4 for a dollar or less at this point in the season.
I plant them deep in a place I might not visit for weeks at a time.
I usually get a yield from them.

Over winter I  compost leaves on each bed, and usually add urine as well.

I've tried various watering schemes but I haven't been successful with anything other than watering with a hose.


I might try a Florida weave this year, but trellises are usually vertical strings or grape vines.
I'm trying homemade tomahooks in a few places, hoping to lower and lean for more production.

I tend to prune as I do most things, sporadically.
Because of that , there will usually be many leaders that have set flower  by the time I get to them.
I never remove a flowing stem, but everything else eligible for removal.

Because of my recent first time experiences with blight, I planted one bed 18" on center.
The plants look good, but the empty space in that bed hurts my feelings.
I still have a bed with 1 tomato plant per square foot and its also booming, for now.

William what about putting a bunch of other stuff with your lonely tomato? Radish, basil, buching onions, nasturtiums, marigolds, short bush beans, those would be my top choice.
Just a thought. Good luck

Hey Jen, I am loving that list!
Until the last two years I planted tomatoes check to jowl, with great results but the blight finally caught with me.
I'm guessing most of the plants you suggested are short, so they won't interfere with the airflow?

I kinda screwed up and reverted to my old ways in the front yard as seen here:

"*What's your secret to amazing tomatoes?"

I think I grow amazing tomatoes; I get a good harvest for fresh eating and can a ton of sauce for the winter, so I'm happy with my results.

I grow only from seed. I start them indoors around April 15th, and plant them out around the 3rd week of May.

I prune some to a single leader and some to a double leader, depending on space. I prune lower leaves up to near the first fruit set. I do this to keep soil splash off the lower leaves-this helps keep fungal diseases, like Septoria, at bay. I also mulch the ground around my tomatoes with winter rye straw I grow; this helps with the soil splash, and keeps the soil moist and cool during the hot summers. Also breaks down and return nutrients to soil.
I am constantly pruning suckers.

I water when Mother Nature doesn't supply. I also fertigate with diluted urine water and compost drippings, which I hope, is rich with humic acid, amongst other nutrients. I usually only fertilize with compost that I make myself. I might add a little bone meal in the hole I dig for the seedling for calcium if I have it on hand.

I trellis my tomatoes with the 7 foot t-posts and conduit system. The t-post are driven in the ground one foot, so a six foot high trellis. When the tomatoes reach the top I run a twine line horizontally across the top to a six foot fence the tomato plot is near and continue growing them horizontally, maybe another six feet. If they reach the fence I continue training them down the fence. By this time it's usually late September/early October and they are heading into senescence anyways.

My plots are 3-4 wide and the tomatoes are planted in a row 2 feet apart on one side of the plot so I can trellis them. This leaves room for planting other things in the rest of the plot. Right now I have various lettuces planted there, with the occasional basil or parsley plant. When the lettuces go to seed due to the heat of summer, I'll plant something else for a fall harvest.

I don't spray aspirin. I will spray Epsom salts if magnesium deficiency is indicated, but that seems to be rare for me. I am doing something different this year in an attempt to keep Septoria fungus at bay. I am doing proactive (prophylactically ) spraying of EM1 and SCD probiotics on the leaves and stems once a week. Sometimes I mix some diluted homemade yogurt in the mix. The idea is to "over populate" the phyllosphere ( the biome of the above ground -leaf and stem- portion of the plant ) with "good" microbes. When pathogenic microbes land on the leaves/stems they'll use a process called Quorum Sensing to see if others of their kind are near by so they can launch an attack. They'll also use quorum sensing to see what other microbes and their numbers have already populated the plant's phyllosphere. The good microbes can also potentially stop or degrade this signaling of the pathogens using a technique called quorum quenching. Anyway, I'm just getting into all this stuff and I'm not an expert by any means. I am trying it for the first time this season, and hopefully it will help.

Here's a picture of my trellis system I just this week set up.

This is a bed in front of my unfinished greenhouse.
Just yesterday I hung the grapevines and wound the tomatoes onto them.
I pruned some of them, and put the cuttings in soil.
I also transplanted dozens of tiny trees and a  few tomatoes.
I'm thinking of sowing turnips in between the tomatoes, what do y'all think?

William Bronson wrote:
I'm thinking of sowing turnips in between the tomatoes, what do y'all think?

I don't know about turnips, but I have been growing tomatoes with radishes, green onions, leafy greens, and bush beans successfully.
Roots, leaves, fruit. Grow them all together.

William I don't have first hand knowledge of this, but everything I read says turnips are in the brassica family and can stunt the growth of tomatoes. It also said they attract the same bug's, so can increase infestation and disease.
I don't always listen to what "they" say. I might try a few next to one tomato, and see what happens.  If I had a limited amount of tomatoes, then I would probably error on the side of caution and plant my turnips some place else.
Good luck,.

I happen to have a crate of half rotten onions, so I will probably skip the risk of turnips and plant the alliums instead.
I'll get green onions to go with the tomatoes, plus flowers.

William Bronson wrote: Let see...
I only start my own via volunteers.

Likewise on tomatoes and melons. volunteers only. It is easy to leave a few on the vine or tuck under the wood chips. The volunteers seem to come out at exactly the right time and produce better than any other pot started or direct sowed seed.

It is fun to see what the garden will provide on its own before we start adding other things.

One of the reasons I started this post was because I wondered about pruning. I  watched video talking about pruning to a single leader because the root system has a harder time handling a huge tomato plant with lots of suckers. At first I thought yeah that makes sense, but then I thought that doesn't really seem right. The tomato naturally grows this way, so it seems like if this were true, tomatoes would have died out years ago. Just my 2 cents.
I always intend to prune the suckers, but really manage it. I usually only prune when the tomato is hogging space from its neighbors.
Truth be told I tend to over extended myself. Often things don't get done on time, or not at all. This year I have paid a heavy price (pun intended) for my neglect. In the past I never had good luck growing beefsteak tomatoes. I stuck with cherry, and medium sized tomatoes. This year I was focusing on tomatoes that grow in hot dry climates. I ended up with 2 or 3 beefsteak tomatoes. The awesome thing is they are growing and producing better than I have ever grown before. The bummer is I haven't pruned, and I'm behind on staking them up. I have lost several branches. There was just too many huge tomatoes, and they just snapped the branches. This has never happened to my tomatoes before. Lucky tomatoes are tough, and can handle this kind of damage. I have to say it's kind of exciting to see the large tomatoes grow, especially since they never did well for me before.
Thanks for all of your great posts. I enjoy you sharing your gardens with me.

The single leader pruning method is used mostly in the greenhouse aquaponic system with high investment, high market value tomatoes. The growth and production is linear, and can be managed in a continuous and repetitive way.  The least labor intensive way to let tomatoes grow naturally will require large flat land and there will be many fruits left unharvested or damaged.

I am taking a middle ground to get the benefits of both methods. I have multiple leaders (up to 12) but only trellis the strongest 4-5 up. Each plant has 9 sq ft of space. I let cherry tomatoes go up the trellis and spread horizontally afterwards. Some large slicing tomatoes can't take the summer heat. They get pulled after producing a flush of about 20 fruits.

I hear that determinate (bush) tomatoes don't need pruning or staking, but determinate (cordon) tomatoes do. What do I do if I don't know what type I've got (they were nice to eat though!)? Is there an easy way to tell as they grow? and is it likely to matter?

I only grew a few Roma tomatoes before but here is what I noticed about their branching patterns: https://permies.com/t/178560/Rule-leaf-flower-ratio-tomato#1601164

"In the indeterminate beefsteak tomato plants, which fruit every three leaves on the main branch and new side shoots fruit after first five leaves then every three leaves after that. In the determinate type, those numbers were reduced to two, three and two respectively. Overall the plants are bushy with more branches and flowers, and the fruits will mature over a shorter period of time. "

Great question.

The general feeling seems to be, you can't be sure until the plants are quite well-grown ..

Bush tomatoes "often" flower at the end of their side stems, then stop growing more leaves at a height of 3-5ft.  

Vining tomatoes "often" continue putting on more leaves beyond flowers, and can grow twice as tall/long if there's no frost to stop them.

So, only time will tell ..

This video show how to prune tomato plants to get more tomato fruit.|:

Nancy, the easiest tell as they grow is whether the plant keeps pushing new leaves past each flower truss. Indeterminate ones just keep going, flower after flower with more stem above each one. Determinate types tend to cluster the flowers more toward the tips and sort of run out of steam at a certain height. If yours was nice to eat it was probably an indeterminate, they tend to have more flavour variety.

If you are starting tomatoes from seed it should say on the package. If you are buying starts it should say on the tag, if it doesn't you can look it up on the Internet by name. In my experience it used to always say indeterminate or determinant on the tag, but for some reason I noticed this year that information was lacking on a lot of the tags.
If you plan on canning, or freezing tomatoes and, or any of the things you can make with them determinate might be your best bet. They have a determined size, and for the most part produce most of the tomatoes all at the same time. This is why they say not to prune a determinate tomato, because you don't want to risk reducing your tomato production. Leave everything alone to get maximum amount of tomatoes.
For longevity an indeterminate tomato might be your best bet. Basically they are a vine and grow until the weather stops them. They produce a smaller amount of tomatoes at one time, but continue to produce them until the weather stops them. If you have enough of this kind of tomato you can do everything you can do with determinate tomatoes, you may just have to do smaller batches. The sky is the limit on pruning options for indeterminate tomatoes. Basically it comes down to personal preference and climate. If you live in a place like I do the options are wide open, because I have a very long growing season. I personally don't prune my tomatoes, except when it starts to bully it's neighbors, and then it's not strategic, but just removing the crowding branches. I get away with this because I live in a hot dry climate. Someone growing in a very humid climate would probably suffer fungal issues if they didn't prune. If you have a very short growing season, you may want to go with one of the more severe pruning techniques. This concentrates production, so you get tomatoes to grow size up and at least start to ripen before your growing window closes.
The great thing about growing your own garden is you get to do what you want. This is a blessing and a curse. Most of us like to do things our way, but if you're new to gardening, the options can be overwhelming. Single leader, double leader, let the plant grow but cut all the "suckers" off, don't prune.... it can be quite overwhelming. In this case talking to people who grow tomatoes in your area, find out what works for them (take what you learn with a grain of salt. Some people tend to believe if they have success growing a certain way everyone should too, and that's not always the case)  If you have space maybe experiment with a few different techniques.
I used to only grow indeterminate. Now I grow both, because I have learned I can make the most amazing spaghetti sauce quick and easy with fresh tomatoes. I thought it took all day, and was difficult. Last year I threw a bunch of tomatoes ( all different kinds) into a pan with onions, garlic, and Basil. No blanching, or peeling, I just cooked it until the tomatoes were broken down, which is actually pretty quick, put it over pasta, and WOW it was better than anything jar sauce I even had. Quick easy probably a lot healthier, and taste so good. Unfortunately it was at the end of the season, but we did manage to freeze a couple of batches of sauce. In the future I would like to can some sauce, but for now I want to make and freeze sauce. Even the frozen sauce was way better than the jar.
Sorry this was so long. I hope it helps. Good luck

Jen Fulkerson wrote:Like almost everyone who grows a garden I grow tomatoes. Being a serial gardener I'm always looking for ways to grow it better. Besides Permies ( my most reliable source) I spend a lot of time on YouTube. The wealth of information can make my head explode. I want to ask what you do or don't do in your gardens?

* Do you direct sow? If you plant transplants do you plant at soil level, deeper than it was in the pot, or sideways?
* Do you prune? Single stem, or just the suckers?
* How do you water?
* Do you fertilize?
* How do you support your tomatoes?
* Do you plant all your tomatoes together, on mix it up?
* Any special companions?
*What's your secret to amazing tomatoes?
* Do you do some of those things like dissolve aspirin in water, and spray on the leaves, or use Epsom salt, or any other unusual things,?
I'm interested in answers to these questions. If you post please don't feel like you have to answer every question, I'll enjoy what ever you want to share.

I'll go first I'm in zone 9b N. CA. So I have a very long hot dry summer season. I start my seeds in the house, then move them to my little greenhouse, then transplant into the garden once the night time temps are 50 or above. I did  manage to direct sow some in the garden last year. They did well, but took a lot longer to produce, and didn't out perform the ones I started earlier. I always used remove the bottom sets of leaves and plant deep. This year I read that slowed production down, so I didn't do it. I think I'm already regretting it. All my tomatoes are falling over and seem to need a lot of support. Usually I only have to worry about that once it gets kinda tall.  I add my fertilizer mix( what ever organic stuff I have, like blood, bone meal, azamite, greensand, biolive) twice a year when I transition from winter to spring, and summer to fall when I also add compost. I add a little of the mix to the bottom of the hole, and then soil then a bit of mycorrhiza. I strongly believe creating great soil is more important than fertilizing ( all my raised beds are hugel beet style) I usually grows indeterminate. The last couple of years I have been trying tomatoes that are supposed to do well in hot dry climate. I use tomato cages my son made for me that are awesome. That's about it for me. I water when I think it needs it when it's in the 100s that can be every day. I don't prune sometimes I remove suckers, but most of the time I don't get around to it. The last couple of years I did remove the flowers until the tomato got to a good size. I don't fertilize during the growing season, I tried compost tea in the past, but I didn't really think it made a difference. I definitely mix it up tomatoes go in every bed ( I have major gopher problem, so I only grow in raised beds,) lots of companions. Always basil, near by are always nasturtiums, marigolds, zinnias, radish, and all sorts of veggies, fruit, herbs and flowers. Bye August it's a jungle.  I usually get tomatoes, the last couple of years better than most for me. Is it because of something I'm doing, or just luck, I don't know, time will tell. The last couple of years I have gotten a lot of tomatoes, and my husband says they taste great (I don't like tomatoes unless they are used for cooking) I don't get production like I see on the Internet where the vines have mass amounts of tomatoes. I'm happy with what I have been getting, but always strive to learn more.  Thanks

In Wisconsin zone 4b, you have to start them inside and if you plant them after mid March, you can still get a decent crop if you start them on heat mats, but in March.
Tomatoes make "adventitious roots". They show up as little bumps at first on the stem close to the ground. Plant them deeper than the little bumps, either standing or laying down. I plant them in half barrels (the big blue plastic ones) as it makes harvesting with a bad back a lot easier, also, I wrap a piece of 2" X 4" fence around them ( I can pass my hand through for harvesting), a little copper and some straw to limit blight: We have a lot of blight around here. (Tomatoes and potatoes fall prey to it.) That's for support, too.
I plant only 1 tomato plant per half barrel but my barrels are mixed. Roma tomatoes, purple, yellow pears, gold especially are my favorites, the barrels almost touching.
Basil and French marigold work great, inside the same 1/2 barrel for companion plants.
I don't fertilize much. Sometimes with comfrey tea, sometimes with a bit of commercial if I have to, but nothing really unusual.
Watering is key, especially if your tomatoes are in containers as they cannot take advantage of the wetness of the soil that would surround them. So yeah: you really have to water them on a schedule so they never get dry if you grow them in containers: I have lengths of 10 ft, 1" PVC, little tubes comin out of it and into the 1/2 barrels. The little tubing is long enough to get under the leaves directly on 1" of milled straw.