Tipi Firepit to Dakota Firepit Idea

Hi everyone.We are very low tech here at our farm with all kinds of little hideaway shelters and then there's the 22 foot tipi. I dug out crusher run and set up this fire pit ring. Now I want to add a Dakota fire pit vent by adding a metal pipe or two that goes underneath the fire ring with an opening next to it to bring O2 in or should it go outside the tipi and vent smoke? I'm here requesting your advice. What do you suggest to get more air flow? Less smoke?Thank you. Jules

That's an interesting idea!  If I had a cool tipi in a permanent location I would definetly be looking into a rocket mass heater but the Dakota fire hole is a good idea too! The point of the pit is to have air drawn into your fire cause by heat rising past the intake. You could even experiment with putting several smaller air inlets all the way around the pit! Having an easy medium to manipulate like a crusher run base means you can try several things with less effort!

I believe the lower smoke associated with a dfh is from the more efficient combustion taking place due to the extra air intake. So you wouldn't be venting smoke with the piping! I'm sure a six inch intake would really get things going but I really wonder if running 6 different 1 inch pipes in might make it burn even more efficiently and help wind or something coming from a nontypical direction interfered.

I would make sure however it's done to bend the pipe so it is either horizontal at the intake or turned down like a p trap to avoid flooding your fire pit during rain events. I would also aim the pipe or pipes away from the direction of the prevailing winf to keep a more constant heat siphon rather then choppy gusts!

Please post more as you experiment!

Thank you so much. Yes this location is permanent. It's in the open and gets full sun, required herei n the wet dark northeast. The tipi is right next to where horses are trained and hang out when the big field is temporarily closed (let the grass grow). We use the tipi for camping, woofer space, and my personal hideaway. I am installing the liner this fall and hope to make the space super cozy.

What type of pipe would you recommend? I was considering multiple intake pipes as you suggested and also considering potential flooding. Would I need to screen the ends where they meet the firepit? Thanks again!!!

I merged your stuff with the following thread. I hope that is okay by you.

Hi everyone.We are very low tech here at our farm with all kinds of little hideaway shelters and then there's the 22 foot tipi. I dug out crusher run and set up this fire pit ring. Now I want to add a Dakota fire pit vent by adding a metal pipe or two that goes underneath the fire ring with an opening next to it to bring O2 in or should it go outside the tipi and vent smoke? I'm here requesting your advice. What do you suggest to get more air flow? Less smoke?Thank you. Jules

Jules Harrell wrote:

What type of pipe would you recommend? I was considering multiple intake pipes as you suggested and also considering potential flooding. Would I need to screen the ends where they meet the firepit? Thanks again!!!

I dont have any direct experience but I would be looking at pvc schedule 80 since it's close to the surface and has horse traffic over it but I would use an adapter coupling to change to metal on the fire pit side a few feet into the ground so the soil or crush mix can absorb the heat and not accidentally melt the pipe. It doesn't take much to make it lose its form or metal conduit with threaded couplings  if it's smaller pipes that are easier to shape assuming your intake is 1 in or smaller anththing larger I'd stick to pvc as it's easy to manipulate  without special tools.

Is the tipi closed around the base? If it isn't rodent and bug proof I don't see much of a need  for screen at the fire side but you might cover the exterior side to prevent animals cloging the pipe.

I'm thinking to keep firepit coals and ashes out.

Haha probably a great idea.

"What do you suggest to get more air flow? Less smoke?"

Several questions and observations...

Why do you have the fire in a hole? The heat is being reflected up, not out like it would be if on ground level. And the air flow is being restricted by having to drop into the pit. Also, I can't tell much about your daily use, but from the pictures you may be using the flaps incorrectly. Part of their job is to control air flow by being moved to face different directions, partly depending on where Wind is. For less smoke, use the flaps right and use drier wood.

~~This is not on point to your original question. --But just a story.

Many years ago, we had a group of folks here for a Purification Lodge. I asked (primarily out of politeness) if anyone had experience in running the lodge, and one fellow said he did and he said he would like to "run" the one that day. So we talked a bit and I decided to (take a chance) see what would happen. Purification Lodges as held in different Nations vary quite a bit. There is a general form so to speak. Four rounds, Praying each round for various purpose. Maybe Praying for the Elders. Then for the sick or in need. Then maybe for the Nation. And maybe for the particular people in the Lodge. It can vary, and sometimes it is best to discuss just what or who the Prayers will be before beginning the Ceremony. The Senecas generally use fewer Stones and have shorter rounds. That is in part because they live in a more benign environment. Ceremony reflects life, life effects Ceremony. Lakota People (traditionally) live in a much hotter, drier, colder place. Their Ceremonies reflect that. Longer rounds. More Stones used. More heat.

So back to the point of the story. This fellow spoke in the Lodge, directing each round. But actually, he didn't speak. He sang. Walt Disney songs. And we all joined in. "Hi Hoo, Hi Hoo, it's off to where we go." It was the weirdest, strangest, funniest thing I had ever done. At first, I was shocked. Even dismayed. It was so outside Tradition. ~~But as I thought about it, I realized we were all "white guys". The closest we actually came to our own traditions was something along the lines of a Scandinavian Sauna. What this strange guy was doing was completely outside of Native experience, and (in a way) completely in our experience. And once I got over my thoughts of how we were doing something (like sacrilegious?) I realized that this weird, crazy, off, Ceremony was exactly wonderful. We did together something that was so fun and so funny and had so much laughter, that it was perfectly healing for all of us.
We had found our own kind of Healing, not copying another Peoples Ceremony. Finding our own.

~~~I mention all of this because your headline for your question was about Tipi's and Dakota holes. And at first it struck me as a bit of use of words and names of other People, instead of finding our own names. It's a very minor thing. But maybe something to think about. -Is imitation flattery, ...or maybe something else.

Hi there. Well yes tipi ceremonies can vary dramatically. Been to many over the years, always by invitation, always with respect for traditional ways. Ive actually never heard of a 'purification' ceremony in a tipi with hot rocks. Assuming that was a sweat lodge. Yes it can be risky messing around with old ways. Best to go straight to the source. Our longterm tipi family are native peoples in Maine, some living on Indian Island. Tipis (and we have owned many) are notoriously smokey. You are right the pit in the hole was not ideal, which is why i was thinking Dakota firepit tunnels. Dakota firepits and rocket stoves and smokeless fire pits all fascinate me. Regardless of the names each have valid science behind them, namely making the fire hotter so there's less smoke. We, my husband and I, decided ultimately on the DIY smokeless fire pit concept. We bought two rings, one with a lip. He drilled holes in each ring, outer ring holes at the bottom, inner ring holes near the top. Well it works! The smoke is about half what it was, with the added bonus of not moving around the tipi even with the door open and no liners. I believe with a liner and the door closed we will have an even sweeter set up. The smoke flaps were closed in the previous photo because we didn't have a fire. We normally leave them closed to maintain a dryer interior. This is the fire on a rainy windy day in the northeast. Our tipi is next to the horses and we use it for our youth programs here at Hearts in Hand Horsemanship. Jules

Glenn Herbert wrote:I merged your stuff with the following thread. I hope that is okay by you.

I am always glad when permies admin merges threads because you see the big picture. This makes it easier for us to find the right forum. Thank you.

Just an observation about your fire, and how conventional stoves work.

In my woodstove we have primary air - fed from below, directly into the ember zone of the fire - and secondary air - fed from above. My observation is that too much primary air actually hinders getting a steady fire going. The embers burn through incredibly quickly, and away to nothing. Without the good bed of embers it is challenging to get a clean burn on the wood added above. If adding an air supply below I would recommend making sure you have some way to control the flow.

Michael Cox wrote:Just an observation about your fire, and how conventional stoves work.

In my woodstove we have primary air - fed from below, directly into the ember zone of the fire - and secondary air - fed from above. My observation is that too much primary air actually hinders getting a steady fire going. The embers burn through incredibly quickly, and away to nothing. Without the good bed of embers it is challenging to get a clean burn on the wood added above. If adding an air supply below I would recommend making sure you have some way to control the flow.

Thank you Michael, good advice. We heat primarily with wood here and understand how venting and fresh air work to maintain a bed of coals in a woodstove. Even so, it took a bit of research to figure out the ideal situation for a low tech fire ring set up. The fire you are seeing in these pics left such a strong bed of hot coals I was finally forced to pour a couple gallons of water on them before I could leave the tipi.

I highly recommend this fairly inexpensive and simple DIY model for a hotter fire with less smoke, both inside the tipi and outside in your yard. In fact, we are setting up another fire pit just like this one on a different spot for folks to use. It's a safe contained fire and you can chill out while not getting repeatedly blasted with smoke. We only buy the really heavy inner ring with a lip and the fairly heavy outer ring. The inner ring must fit well inside the outer for the lip to be effective. Jules