Growing elderberries (S. nigra) from seed

This is a thread to collect information and document my journey starting elderberry plants from seed, and to gather resources for and from others.

I have been making a more concerted effort to add new perennials to our farmstead. To do so frugally, that means largely starting from cuttings or seeds. So, I've chosen to start with a few species each year and start growing out the starts for our forest garden. Seeds are low impact, relatively speaking, to bring in to the farm and offer a more genetically diverse end result. They may take longer, but I can start a lot more. The results might be inconsistent, but I'm willing to wait a few years and bet that some will be winners.

So far, I've purchased some seeds from Miss Penn's Mountain Seeds, they should be S. nigra (european black elderberry). I'm looking at some other sources as well, and planning to start them this autumn. Half-ish I plan to winter or direct sow and the other half-ish, I could put into the fridge to stratify 2-3 months before our last frost and then plant out in early spring. A bit of an experiment, and a bit of insurance against less-than-ideal natural conditions. I have read that they can take 2-5 years to germinate so I plan to give carefully dedicated space to them, either in the ground or an air pruning bed. I think the air pruning beds would be a good way to keep the grass out without disturbing the seedlings.

A few initial questions:
Does anyone have experience starting elderberry in air pruning beds, growing them in western Oregon, or other advice for starting from seed?

Hi Rebecca,

I'm growing Blue Elderberries (Sambucus cerulea) which is native to my area and some parts of western states. I started them as bareroots. They are more sensitive than I thought for a native plant. They grow much faster in my garden area, where soil is better (more manure and wood chips) than at the top of my orchard. Gophers may destroy their roots. 2 year old specimens grew to 3 feet in 15 months in the orchard. One year olds grew two feet in the garden in last 3 months. I have 15 total.

Hi Rebecca,
I have the same thought. Partly from a cost point of view, I am trying to grow many different trees and shrubs from seed  - with varying success. Some seeds I buy - the Agroforestry Research Trust and Chiltern Seeds are both good sources of unusual perennials in the UK. I am also a member of the Hardy Plant Society (HPS), which although UK based does have international membership and does a useful seed swap.. Many useful perennials are also ornamental garden plants in the UK (Think Udo, Hosta, Fuchsia...)
I must admit I get a variable success rate, but generally if I get only one seed germinating I'm quite happy! To buy a plant might cost £10-15 plust the same again in postage due to my location. To buy a pack of seeds is more like £5 including postage, mind you that can rack up as well, so I need to restrain myself a bit :)
If I fail after a few tries I have been known to buy a plant that I particularly want.

Some suggestions:
Try and get as fresh seed as possible. I've had better success with the HPS seed than the commercially bought seed. I think the drying process can give really deep dormancy which can be difficult to break.
Check whether the seed is likely to be naturally dormant. Some seeds need to go through a winter, a wildfire, or an animals gut before germinating naturally and you may need to simulate that.
Label your pots (guilty)
protect pots from slugs, mice etc.
Don't throw the non sprouting seeds away too soon: I've had a tray of Hawthorne come up like cress after two years.

I haven't tried germinating Elder, so I can't give you any specifics from experience. I would try and get hold of fruit and sow the seed fresh in the Autumn (fall). Leave outside to get winter cold, and hopefully they will germinate in Spring. If that isn't convenient then presoaking the seed and putting in a bag with damp tissue or sand in the fridge for 3-4 weeks often helps simulate a winter chill and fools the seed into germinating more reliably.

Fresh seed from Akebia Quinata fruit from Facebook acquaintance

What i know of elderberry is that it's easy to take wintercuttings from and get them to root. Once they're established, they're hard to kill. So you can take as many cuttings as you like in time. I've taken three from dôme food forest i visited last winter, they're knee high now, all three.
In time they'll probide a few hundred seeds a year. So normally you should have enough soon.
The thing i vaguely remember is they have to go through a bird's stomach. Which one can imiitate by keeping them in some acid of kind.
They're frost tender, i'd start them in spring.
The last two points i make need more research..
Good luck, elderberry flower champagne is awesome.

Thanks for all of the advice so far!

I was able to get some s. nigra cuttings from a bush that is being grown as an ornamental. I don't know what its qualities are like but, I don't know if I'll have an opportunity to go back there this winter so I took some summer cuttings when I could. It was a large shrub with pretty, dark foliage.

The search for more local sources continues. Meanwhile my seeds wait for the fall and for cold stratification, and the cuttings sit in a bucket of water hoping for roots.

I planted elderberries, three varieties bought from a catalog (Miller's?) quite some time ago. There are elderberries coming up everywhere on my property and even down the road, about 1/10 of a mile away so you might want to just start putting berries where you want plants to be. I'm in eastern Pennsylvania about 40 miles north of Philadelphia.

This may not be the best time of year to root them so you may want to use rooting hormone and put the cuttings in a soilless mix.

Always get it when you can. There was this cuttings topic on permies and someone said ' there are people who take many cuttings and there are those who don't '
It's a very rewarding technique and easy when you've cracked the code on thé variety available to you.
Some like wintercuttings, some summer, some people put them in water, some in sand or perlite, some in shade on thé north side ( global north) , some use heatmats and some plastic dômes with misters, some use hormones some sweat there's no difference, some use willow Walter, . Then there's soft wood hard wood or halfway and the moon plays a role probably.
I'm getting into rootcuttings of robonia pseudo acaca and Anna paulonia. Fastgrowing nitrogenfixers to chop and drop to feed and protect the soils for fruit trees and nut trees.

Akiva Silver's book 'trees of power' really inspirés me as well as his friend from edible acres on you tube who has great présentations on cuttings

This is apples figs goji etc