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pasture

Maintaining pH in a pasture without lime?

Gray Henon

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posted 2 years ago

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Its common knowledge in our area that soils are acidic and maintaining a pasture requires lime. Absent pH correction, nutrients become unavailable to pasture gasses/legumes suffer.

Limestone must be quarried, crushed, transported and spread. Every step is energy intensive.

Ash is the most obvious alternative, but, best I can tell, would require massive amounts of wood to be burned to provide the amount needed.

Biochar also tends to be alkaline and would help raise the pH, but I haven’t been able to find much regarding using it in this fashion.

Any ideas/information on this topic?

https://permies.com/t/161023/biochar-production-tally-thread

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Phil Stevens

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posted 2 years ago

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Ash would be the most direct means. Biochar is sort of like diluted ash. Some of the research into biochar's properties has been specifically on its ability to act like lime and it's even expressed as "liming potential." But you would need significant amounts to really shift the needle on acidic soils.

For small areas like garden beds, shells might be a good option. But at a farm scale this falls over pretty quickly. Lime really is the best option out there for bulk treatment, and doing without would mean accepting a different sort of pasture (and productivity), which has implications on the animals that are grazing.

Joseph Lofthouse

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I find it easier to change the genetics or the species that I grow than to change the soil, or the inherent ecosystem. What grasses and forbs grow in the non-limed wildlands nearby? Those may work great in a permaculture pasture.

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Gray Henon

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Location: Appalachian Foothills-Zone 7

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Joseph Lofthouse wrote:I find it easier to change the genetics or the species that I grow than to change the soil, or the inherent ecosystem. What grasses and forbs grow in the non-limed wildlands nearby? Those may work great in a permaculture pasture.

The wildlands around here grow trees very well;) Observing such, I’ve planted approximately 50 trees for the sole purpose of providing fodder to my livestock. They love it, but it is a bit labor intensive to harvest and clean up.. I’m looking into weeping varieties that will “self feed” the livestock.

https://permies.com/t/161023/biochar-production-tally-thread

Eric Silveira

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posted 2 years ago

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I agree that it may be easier to change the genetics of the constituent pasture species, but you could always try and utilize controlled burns. Besides numerous other benefits, the temporary influx of ash will raise the ph of the soil; how much it will change depends but I think a schedule of planned low-intensity burns could help achieve your goal. Make sure to check with your local fire department for any permits/permissions needed and be patient waiting for the right "burn day", it can be frustrating sometimes but it makes a huge difference.

Using fodder trees in a silvopasture or stand-alone system is an excellent idea as well. You could always pollard certain species to make the subsequent chop and drop much easier. Even coppicing would work if you're willing to protect them after a browse cycle or two, or if you're dealing with something extremely vigorous like black locust then that could be an effective control method!

Hope this helps,
Eric S.

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Mike Philips

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posted 2 years ago

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Google says there are many possible causes, so without specifics, a general question might get a general answer.

As far as I know, nature’s response is to grow plants that take to the soil.

It’s said that organic matter buffers the soil.

If you grew blueberries or oak trees for example, and then exported the acidic fruit, and/or imported alkaline fruits/veg/material, then after a long long time that might effect it.

Is the groundwater the same pH as the soil?

What soil type?

I could offer a chemistry-based idea but that has its own set of issues, including the ones you mention with energy and transportation, so even if it effected it, it might not be the best solution.

Anne Miller

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posted 2 years ago

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I have read that there are alkaline foods so I was wondering if growing these plants would help change the soils PH?

Maybe chop and drop these plants?

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Mike Philips

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posted 2 years ago

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As I understand it, yes there are alkaline foods/plants/materials. And yes, adding it to the soil will increase the pH above what it was before adding it. However, I think there’s one slight issue with that….

I believe the way the plant made itself more alkaline in the first place was by putting acidity somewhere else, most likely into the soil. In that case I believe that chop-and-drop would technically have no net effect on the overall pH of the topsoil. (Although compost from chop-and-drop is said to be excellent to “buffer pH”. I figure what this means is that if the soil is non-neutral, then its non-neutrality has less of an adverse effect on plants.)

Eric Silveira

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posted 2 years ago

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"The wildlands around here grow trees very well;) Observing such, I’ve planted approximately 50 trees for the sole purpose of providing fodder to my livestock. They love it, but it is a bit labor intensive to harvest and clean up.. I’m looking into weeping varieties that will “self feed” the livestock."
Hi Gray,

There are weeping varieties of Mulberry that might be useful for that purpose, it is reported to be a high-quality animal feed.

Eric S.

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Mark Reynolds

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posted 1 year ago

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Gray Henon wrote:Its common knowledge in our area that soils are acidic and maintaining a pasture requires lime. Absent pH correction, nutrients become unavailable to pasture gasses/legumes suffer./quote]

It's not so common knowledge that there are species of vegetation that are adapted to areas of lower pH and do not require amendments to the soil that you are suggesting that do provide grazable forage on a sustainable basis.

Mark Wyborny

Posts: 39

posted 11 months ago

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Gray Henon wrote:Its common knowledge in our area that soils are acidic and maintaining a pasture requires lime. Absent pH correction, nutrients become unavailable to pasture gasses/legumes suffer.

Limestone must be quarried, crushed, transported and spread. Every step is energy intensive.

Ash is the most obvious alternative, but, best I can tell, would require massive amounts of wood to be burned to provide the amount needed.

Biochar also tends to be alkaline and would help raise the pH, but I haven’t been able to find much regarding using it in this fashion.

Any ideas/information on this topic?

We don't know your region so we have no idea your usda cold hardiness zone or your local free resources to raise your ph with. If you lived on the southeast USA you'd be warm enough to plant bahia varieties and they absolutely need acid soil to thrive. If you lived near the southeast coast you could get oyster shell almost free to permanently raise your ph to grow bermuda. If you lived up north you cant grow bermuda youd need orchard grass after you raise ph. In the west you'd not need lime for anything that can grow out there it's too high in ph in alot of the west. Because you said it's common knowledge your soil needs lime I guess you are in the southeast. I don't really have any idea. I was told I'd need lime by extension agency but when tested professionally it's 7.0. That's too high for bahia and alot of things. I had to buy sulfur to lower it for tomatoes potatoes and a bunch of other things. Don't trust common knowledge. Get a good test done. And yes these other helpers are the best advice. Plant the pasture with what likes your natural soil. Clover loves acidic soil. That's the best if you don't want to feed suppliments. It's super high in protein and nutrients and fixes in the atmospheric nitrogen for your grasses.

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