• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Timothy Norton
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Tereza Okava
  • AndrĂ©s Bernal
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • M Ljin
  • Matt McSpadden

Glass bottles with water floor for thermal storage?

 
Posts: 32
Location: Pubnico, Nova Scotia
2
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Has anyone ever tried using glass bottles (beer bottle size, but with a closable lid that seals) filled with water, lying on their sides in tight rows, with cob or cement mortar to hold them in place, as a thermal mass heat storage for passive solar home design? (insulated underneath, of course)

I saw a picture of bottles in the floor and thought of this idea but am having trouble finding anything online to see if people have tried it.
 
pollinator
Posts: 5699
Location: Bendigo , Australia
515
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
At a time when I had no money and was building a small house, I used bottles instead of road base as a floor subgrade.
I just laid them out and covered them with 20mm road base and saved about   80% of the required fill.
 
steward
Posts: 17596
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4508
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I like John's suggestion to use them as a filler.

I feel that the water is not necessary as a thermal mass unless it is possible to use the sun as a feature to heat the water.

That is why using the bottle for walls is a good example of a thermal mass in passive solar.
 
steward and tree herder
Posts: 10977
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
5310
5
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think it's an interesting idea. I haven't tried it, but would be worried about leaks over time. The bottles would need to withstand a fair amount of temperature cycling as they absorb and release heat. I suppose if you used beer bottles or similar that are designed to withstand internal pressure that might work.
thermal capacity of water is extraordinary however:
water: 4182
slate: 760
limestone: 909
brick: 840
(all J/kgdegC from engineering toolbox) The larger the number the more heat energy a material stores per unit mass. So a smaller amount of water will store more heat energy, which could be an advantage in a suspended floor I suppose.
 
Posts: 4
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
 Instead of putting the bottled (or other moderate sized water containers) in the floor, place them up high, in a loft, supported by a bearing wall on a foundation, like the exterior wall between a sunspace or solar greenhouse, and the rest of the house.  such a wall can easily support the weight.  Warm air (from a sunspace, solar greenhouse, solar air heater, or even dark blinds at windows, that will intercept the sunlight and serve as a solar absorber) will then rise (passively) to warm the bottles, creating a thermal syphon loop.  With the heat storage located above the living space it can get quite warm without overheating the living space.  Then, when the house needs heat either a duct and fan, or even a ceiling fan can bring warm air down to living space level, so that you effectively have passive solar without needing the big heat loss through direct gain windows, and can even have thermostatic control, to avoid temperature swings.

- Retired designer of passive solar homes -
 
master pollinator
Posts: 2015
Location: Ashhurst New Zealand (Cfb - oceanic temperate)
644
duck trees chicken cooking wood heat woodworking homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
To avoid the problem of leaks, how about filling with sand?
 
steward & bricolagier
Posts: 15524
Location: SW Missouri
11282
2
goat cat fungi books chicken earthworks food preservation cooking building homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If you leave parts of the bottles showing, stepping on an arc of glass on the floor sounds like a dangerous situation, especially if wetness is involved in any way. I dropped a cast iron skillet on the floor a while back, that would take out any glass bottles it hit, now there would be broken glass and water on the floor, and a hole when you get it cleaned up.

If you plan to cover the bottles deep enough to make the floor smooth for use they will need to be covered, at that point cob or cement are great thermal mass on their own, unless you happen to have several thousand bottles around that you are trying to use up, I'd suggest just make a decent depth of cob or cement. Much less problems.
gift
 
6 Ways To Keep Chickens - pdf download
will be released to subscribers in: soon!
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic