Leggy apple seedlings--how to fix?

Over the winter, I cut open several apples (to eat) and found that the seeds inside had already begun growing a tap root.  Just for kicks, I put them in the ground and the took off.  (I realize they will not grow true to the parent--these I hope to put out back mostly for wildlife, maybe get lucky and have some cider or apples for eating).
It's winter here in WI, and daylight isn't strong or long.  I have the seedlings on a window sill where they get a couple of hours of very bright light, and I have supplimented that with some small LED grow lights (one, a cheap ring shaped light, and the others LEDs that fit into standard lightbulb sockets).

The plants look healthy--maybe 3" tall. Nice bright leaves, no signs of wilting or curling or anything.  But they are growing pretty leggy.  
I've just added 2 more LEDs--I suspect they are suffering from weak light.

Is their anything else I can do to help encourage a thicker stem?  I know with a lot of veggies you can just bury them deeper, but I am not sure if this would work with a young apple tree (I know in adult trees, mounding up around the trunk can kill them).

I would like to get these to succeed--it would be great to have a bunch of apple trees--think of the pollinators, the deer, bunnies, racoons, and all sorts of other creatures that would benefit.

Thanks for any info!  Hoping the increase in light helps make them stop stretching.

I have found with the cheap LED lights that you can bring the light right on top of the seedlings without burning them. I'd put them as close as you could to try and correct.

My experience however is with veggies too so I'm not sure if the advice holds the same with trees.

Timothy Norton wrote:I have found with the cheap LED lights that you can bring the light right on top of the seedlings without burning them. I'd put them as close as you could to try and correct.

My experience however is with veggies too so I'm not sure if the advice holds the same with trees.

From what I read, legginess regardless of the plant, is normall the result of poor lighting.  
I'm hoping installing an additional (and stronger) LED will remedy the situation.  Over the weekend I can hit my storage building.  I built a grow light hood a few years ago that has some 3' flouro tubes, and 6 standard sockets for bulbs.  I think I was running warm white and cool white bulbs and tubes.  It's worked great for veggie seedlings.  As you say, you can put it very close to the plants without problems with burning them.

In a couple weeks, we should be getting warm enough temperatures that I can set them outside during the days.  Nothing beats real sunlight.
I'm just hoping this increase in light will help the plants put on more mass on the stem.  The one really top heavy one, I propped up with a popsicle stick.  I'm hoping I can limp it along, and slow down the stretch.  

A forced breeze also helps fight leggy plants. Set them up where they are lightly disturbed by a fan. It helps them build strength in the stems.

I was going to suggest the same thing, a breeze to stimulate trunk thickening.

And I concur on the “not enough light”, despite the addition of grow lights.  However, once you get bright light, and they stop reaching for light the taller stem may not be a problem, especially once they are outdoors and subjected to mormal environmental stressors.  I would NOT suggest adding braces at any point.  The brace protects the tree from breaking, but the tree doesn’t develop a strong trunk.



It’s a guess, but I think burying the tree higher than its original soil level would be ok because apples sucker, and they can be rooted cuttings.  

One concern I will mention is that you may not get the deep tap root a seedling develops, if you grow the seedling in a shallow pot.

I have bought prairie perennials from prairie moon nursery that arrive in a deep pot—- about 8-10 inches deep, though only 2-3 inches wide at the top.  If you get more seeds, I would suggest trying to duplicate the depth…. Even a tube of rolled newspaper filled with your sprouting mix, and for support, line a tall narrow cardboard box with a waterproof layer, and pack the soil filled tubes into it before placing seeds.

Good luck.

Hey John, I know this wasn't what you asked but, just thought I'd mention (and you may already know), i don't think apple seeds grow true. The only apple trees I've been able to grow from apples I've collected seed from have produced crab apple trees. I think it's rare for a seed to produce a good apple, like 1 in 100 or 1000. Maybe someone with more experience can weigh in.

Hi, John, I'm from Wisconsin as well.[Central Wisconsin, in the potato fields!] Last year, I picked the seeds from apples I had eaten, wrapped them in a damp Scott's towel and placed them in the fridge. In March, I had to be careful undoing the Scott's towel as some already had almost an inch of growth in the root. I placed them in small pots, but I kept them there for less than a week. It was time!
Since the ground was no longer frozen, I selected a bed and planted them, one to every square foot or so. I let them spend the rest of the year and this winter in the bed, with a fair amount of leaves around them. They look very happy so far. I will be transplanting them this spring and use them as rootstock. Before my expensive apple trees take off, this year or next, depending how the seedlings are, I will prune the apples trees I have and use the cuttings to graft on to the seedlings. I hope it will work!
I suspect that besides the additional light, yours may be a bit warm, and that's why they are growing leggy.
If you have them in little pots, my suggestions is to start acclimating them to the temperatures outside. Select a nice place along a south wall and bring them back in at night or when it is freezing until they get used to it: they will get more light than they are getting under the LEDs, being outside. That might stop them from trying so hard to reach for more light. Apple trees can put up with a lot of cold, but in the winter, they will need to get used to it slowly. You are correct that apple pips will not come true, but who cares; You can make terrific apple juice/ hard cider with them.
Good luck to you. I did the same to 30+ chestnuts seeds and just about all of them came up! But chestnut do not transplant well as their taproot is very fragile, so I kept them in a piece of pipe that was 1 foot long, packed them with good soil to protect the growing taproot. I stood them up them in a tote so I could water them from below. Removing them from the pipe was touch and go. [I should have used a 2" pipe]. I messed up 3 of them, but I was able to plant almost 30 and they are still doing well, so Yippee! I planted them in mid April, if I recall, and in just one month, all the roots had grown to stick out the other end of the pipe!

Kenn Trezek wrote: The only apple trees I've been able to grow from apples I've collected seed from have produced crab apple trees. I think it's rare for a seed to produce a good apple, like 1 in 100 or 1000. Maybe someone with more experience can weigh in.

Kenn, your trees are children of a decent mother, often on commercial orchards, planted with crab pollinators. You're more likely of success if you're using apples from mixed or heritage orchards. I've grown a good one, I reckon from a local mixed orchard, with more than a hint of Crispin.
I wouldn't bother sowing apple seeds from anything I haven't enjoyed eating, and that had been grown away from humdrum crabs. (There are some good crabs, with tasty and reasonable-size fruit)

Seconding exposing seedlings to movement strengthens their stems. But if you don't have a good setup for a fan you can just gently run your hand across them whenever you pass by them throughout the day, it accomplishes the same thing and uses no electricity. You just have to be diligent with remembering to do it.

If the apples turn out inedible, you can use the tree as rootstock. It will probably have weak rootstock if it's coming from a commercial apple as it's mother is a graft-on. Grafts have great apple genes, but are not selected for strong roots. This sounds bad, but dwarf growth is sought after.
I've seeded lots of apple seeds of wild apples that grow in hedges around here. Small apples and quite small trees. Just for grafting onto later. I've got apples as well for grafting on. I grow them at an angle, like if they've fallen over. Then they send out vertical shoots which i cover with soil. The shoots form roots, i cut them and transplant them. Lots of work for ten grafts or so. Seeds are easier to grow lots off. If i'm lucky a hundred seedlings is not out of the question. It's always about cracking the code of how to propagate a certain variety.

Hugo Morvan wrote:If the apples turn out inedible, you can use the tree as rootstock. It will probably have weak rootstock if it's coming from a commercial apple as it's mother is a graft-on. Grafts have great apple genes, but are not selected for strong roots. This sounds bad, but dwarf growth is sought after.
I've seeded lots of apple seeds of wild apples that grow in hedges around here. Small apples and quite small trees. Just for grafting onto later. I've got apples as well for grafting on. I grow them at an angle, like if they've fallen over. Then they send out vertical shoots which i cover with soil. The shoots form roots, i cut them and transplant them. Lots of work for ten grafts or so. Seeds are easier to grow lots off. If i'm lucky a hundred seedlings is not out of the question. It's always about cracking the code of how to propagate a certain variety.

A friend of mine suggested that exact same thing.  He has about 12 trees in his little back yard orchard--some standard cultivars--and generously told me when the day came, I could take cuttings and graft them.  He has one tree that his kids grafted 7 or 8 branches to.  It's a weird looking thing, but really a heavy producer.  It's a good idea!!

Hugo Morvan wrote:If the apples turn out inedible, you can use the tree as rootstock. It will probably have weak rootstock if it's coming from a commercial apple as it's mother is a graft-on. Grafts have great apple genes, but are not selected for strong roots. This sounds bad, but dwarf growth is sought after.

Done that! Had a quite vigorous seedling with small nondescript fruit that dropped early, so I'm grafting onto it. Currently just a Wisley Crab, that's reaching for the sky - maybe won't see fruit until it's 20'!
I don't reckon commercial apples necessarily have weak roots, and certainly from the piplings I've seen, they can get quite tall. The growers do have a selection of rootstocks to choose from, to control the vigour. A strong grower like Bramley may still be more vigorous than weaker scions.

I've some seedlings that I want to trial for fruit while keeping small - I've heard arching the branches down can help, so I kicked that off a couple of years ago - I might be getting fruiting spurs this year.