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Generations. or how can we pass on this legacy?  RSS feed

 
Laura Jean Wilde
Posts: 77
Location: LAKE HURON SOUTHERN SHORE
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chicken forest garden hugelkultur
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We are fifty-year-plus aged permies who started Permie-ing late in life. none of our children will likely take over our operation.
Any one have suggestions on how we can involve young and strong permies in a win-win-win, gradual turnover of our thirteen acres of permaculture in Southwestern Ontario?
We need for us to win... retire in non poverty, we need the next genration to win... be able to live the life they invision, and the result will be that the earth will win because there will be another fifty some years of chemical free sustainable food from this place.
any and all suggestions are welcome.
Paul... your input would be especially interesting. i think you touched on this recently but I can't find the thread now.
 
S Bengi
Posts: 1359
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7, AHS:4, Rainfall:48in even distribution
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Are you looking for someone to give you money aka a worker to sell farm produce?
Are you looking for someone to fix your pump/toilet/roof aka handyman?
Are you looking for someone to give you bath/cook your food aka eldercare worker?
Are you looking for someone to to sell/lease the land to, who will take care of it aka a permie?

Lets assume that you are looking for all that and then some more.
What can you do now to empower yourself so that you are less dependent on some potentially lazy young sap as you get older/more senile (lol).

Money/worker.
Prepay your electric with a solar electric/off grid system.
Prepay/selfbuild your home, the etc. etc. for all your expenses.
Start doing yoga, going to church, get a cat/dog whatever it takes to live a healthier less medicated life.
Medicine = money no body has.
A few raised bed/aquaponic system would allow you to harvest your veggies.
And replanting with dwarf/patio plants would allow you to harvest the orchard.

Handyman.
Renew/ rebuy as much as possible right now so that they will not fall apart while you cant physically or pay someone to fix it.

Eldercare.
A CNA cost about $8/hr for 2 hours a day, 30 days a month thats probably $500. Maybe offer someone free housing/room for 2hrs of eldercare a day.
You are probably going to want a single lady for such a position. She will not be "single" for too long so you are going to need a new one every year or so.
Maybe setup a relationship with a college/trade school or immigration place.

Permie.
The legal structure and stipulation of how you share/handover the land is very tricky, varied and personal.
Something akind to a reverse mortgage might be the way to go so that you get a passive source of income for a few decades.
Leasing it would give you yearly veto powers, giving you the most control over your land.
uhmm share-cropping or just a employer-employee situation would give you even more control


 
Adam Klaus
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gardener
Posts: 946
Location: 6200' westen slope of colorado, zone 6
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I think a big issue relates to just how productive your homestead is. If your system produces several times the food that you need annually, then it can accomodate someone else easily. Productive agriculture is the key to multi-generational farming. Homesteads not hobby farms. I would work very diligently in the next decade to refine your systems of production so that somebody else can operate them in a way that supports both of you, and produces a significant surplus.
 
Laura Jean Wilde
Posts: 77
Location: LAKE HURON SOUTHERN SHORE
1
chicken forest garden hugelkultur
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S Bengi wrote:Are you looking for someone to give you money aka a worker to sell farm produce?
Are you looking for someone to fix your pump/toilet/roof aka handyman?
Are you looking for someone to give you bath/cook your food aka eldercare worker?
Are you looking for someone to to sell/lease the land to, who will take care of it aka a permie?

Lets assume that you are looking for all that and then some more.
What can you do now to empower yourself so that you are less dependent on some potentially lazy young sap as you get older/more senile (lol).

Money/worker.
Prepay your electric with a solar electric/off grid system.
Prepay/selfbuild your home, the etc. etc. for all your expenses.
Start doing yoga, going to church, get a cat/dog whatever it takes to live a healthier less medicated life.
Medicine = money no body has.
A few raised bed/aquaponic system would allow you to harvest your veggies.
And replanting with dwarf/patio plants would allow you to harvest the orchard.

Handyman.
Renew/ rebuy as much as possible right now so that they will not fall apart while you cant physically or pay someone to fix it.

Eldercare.
A CNA cost about $8/hr for 2 hours a day, 30 days a month thats probably $500. Maybe offer someone free housing/room for 2hrs of eldercare a day.
You are probably going to want a single lady for such a position. She will not be "single" for too long so you are going to need a new one every year or so.
Maybe setup a relationship with a college/trade school or immigration place.

Permie.
The legal structure and stipulation of how you share/handover the land is very tricky, varied and personal.
Something akind to a reverse mortgage might be the way to go so that you get a passive source of income for a few decades.
Leasing it would give you yearly veto powers, giving you the most control over your land.
uhmm share-cropping or just a employer-employee situation would give you even more control




WOW
That was almost narcissistic.
We are not in need of anyone to take care of us. We are still strong and self reliant; but are looking years down the road for a successor. The place has just started producing more than we can use and we currently donate this to a local food bank. There is tons of room for more production but only two of us.
It is not currently producing enough for two families but could quite easily with another working set of hands.
We are not looking to unload this on someone. We want to "will" or deed it to someone with the same passion.
Our goal would be a gradual transfer perhaps some kind of win-win partnership arrangement.
There may or may not be a legal precedent for this. That’s why I am seeking advice.
 
Laura Jean Wilde
Posts: 77
Location: LAKE HURON SOUTHERN SHORE
1
chicken forest garden hugelkultur
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Adam Klaus wrote:I think a big issue relates to just how productive your homestead is. If your system produces several times the food that you need annually, then it can accomodate someone else easily. Productive agriculture is the key to multi-generational farming. Homesteads not hobby farms. I would work very diligently in the next decade to refine your systems of production so that somebody else can operate them in a way that supports both of you, and produces a significant surplus.

that is where we are heading right now.
The property could be, and will be, much more productive as it matures.
I just wanted to start early to find a successor.
 
S Bengi
Posts: 1359
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7, AHS:4, Rainfall:48in even distribution
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Laura Jean Wilde wrote:
WOW
That was almost narcissistic.
We are not in need of anyone to take care of us. We are still strong and self reliant; but are looking years down the road for a successor. The place has just started producing more than we can use and we currently donate this to a local food bank. There is tons of room for more production but only two of us.
It is not currently producing enough for two families but could quite easily with another working set of hands.
We are not looking to unload this on someone. We want to "will" or deed it to someone with the same passion.
Our goal would be a gradual transfer perhaps some kind of win-win partnership arrangement.
There may or may not be a legal precedent for this. That’s why I am seeking advice.


I did read the part where you are young and strong (still in your 50's).
Which is why I mention that you should replant your orchard with some dwarf trees so that you can still harvest when you are 70.
And the trees will still be productive vs declining/dead.
I dont know if your current garden is 3 years old or 30 so I have to just plan for the worst case and hope for the best.

While it seems that you are mostly looking for someone to help your 50 year old self, I was more focusing on your 70 yr old self.
Sure the person that you find now at 50 will be very helpful, but we dont know how that person will be in 20yrs or what might happen.
So we can hope for a plan A ( the permie section) but we should try our best to prepare for a plan B (money/worker, eldercare, handyman).
And what I offered was some plan B.

Finding a permie person for now to woof, work, crop-share, lease or even sell is not that hard.

It seems that I assumed and assumed wrongly in thinking that you where not financial free for your retirement.
I was thinking of a more traditional extended family multi-generation retirement. And not so much of a will/sale of land.

To find the right fit.
Woofing>cropshare>lease>transfer of 1/2>will the rest.

As to a specific vehicle of transfer.
A sale for zero dollars sale, a living will, a land trust.

 
Bob Anders
Posts: 45
Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA
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I see a few issues with passing down the family farm in my community and have been through a lot of them my self.

To much debt that the younger generation dose not want to jump into ridiculous amount of debt to start with.
The older generation needs the income from the farm to support there end of life care. This leaves all most nothing for the younger generation to live off when taking over.
Unwilling to change from what has “worked”.
Pissed with changes to buildings.
Splitting the “inheritance” to where it is fare to everyone and still having a farm left.
Parents will not let the kids get involved from an early so they want to take over.
 
Laura Jean Wilde
Posts: 77
Location: LAKE HURON SOUTHERN SHORE
1
chicken forest garden hugelkultur
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to S Bengi: yes, Thank you for those ideas. those are the lines I was thinking along. I'd like to find a Woof'r interested in taking over eventually. and I can see the transfer of half (or 49%) and will the rest. perhaps i am not going about getting a WOOFr the right way, as I have been looking for two years but when I mention location (rural SW Ontario) I only get nibbles. They all seem to want something near Toronto. don't ask me why? and i rather like the reverse mortgage angle. It could work. hmmm.


to Bob. We were in our late thirteis and almost empty nesters before we got the permie bug. Prior to that, I was an Organic Farmer and the children were all very involved which I suspect is why they all got University degrees and big city jobs . They follow the philosophy but prefer to ( and fortunately can) pay for their Organics.
We truly understand the reluctance and wisdom of the younger generation to incur rediculous volumes of debt. and this does concern us and is why we are looking for young energetic people who understand and are willing and able to build sweat equity. We have the land base the vision and the capital, we`re just a tad short on energy (the manual kind)... enough to complete all the projects we can see as contributing to profitability and sustainability. the two must be partnered.
I agree that it will be a complex relationship and by default a complex arrangement. I was hoping to find someone who has succeeded in passing on the legacy or at least started arranging.
I don`t mind pioneering, I`ve done it all my life.; but also don`t see the sense in re-inventing the wheel.
Thanks for your input, perhaps it will be all of the above. who knows.
 
Bob Anders
Posts: 45
Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA
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I bought out my mom and dads farm after my mom got sick. At the time my wife and I were trying to grow the bakery that we owned. My moms Dr. bills were adding up and my dad was starting to pay people to do the work on the farm.

It was a lot of talking, a lot of numbers, and a lawyer before I did a lease to own on the land and bought out the business. Every thing I did for the first year I would hear something about it from my mom or dad. It was not until the second year that they started trusting my decisions. I did a drastic change to the farm in the first 3 years.

I have twins (1 one in a wheel chair and 16 year old. After my twins got there BS the one in the chair went to run the bakery and the other took over part of the farm. My 16 year old is on her second year of collage and is trying to take over the animal side of the farm.


My 2 brothers think that I took the farm and took there inheritance. For the last 10 years they have been unwilling to sit down as a group and talk about what was truly set up. I tried a few times to get every one to sit down and talk before the papers were singed, but that did not work.

I know my farm will be passed down to my kids, but who knows how it's going to change over time.
 
S Bengi
Posts: 1359
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7, AHS:4, Rainfall:48in even distribution
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Another thing is what happens if a woofer comes along do all the work and your kids turn 40 and now want to the land, so you neglect your kids and give it to the stranger/woofer? What if an emergency comes up do you still ignore the emergency that could be solved by the quick sale of the land because the woofer want the land. What type of safeguard will be written up in the contract for yourself and for the woofer.

When you advertise for the woofer dont put a time limit on it, just tell them that you would like to teach/share and maybe part with some of your land if the conditions are right. Now after you both get to know each other you can move forward.

Completely unrelated but I would love to hear about what you place looks like and what visions you have for it.

You can probably find woofers at some church, immigrant area, college (maybe science or agriculture dept), camping/hiking/nature group.
 
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