die, hippie, die

I once saw an episode of south park where the town was infested by hippies with the mission of saving the world through the power of rock and roll. 

I have this on-going concern that every time I try to talk about permaculture, the person I'm talking to sees me as a hippie from this 20 minute show. 

At about the same time, I went to something called (I think) "cascadia 2020" - about a hundred people.  For three hours people talked about how to improve things in the area.  But the number one thing I heard is "Is anybody going to actually do anything, or is this just another one of those things where people just talk, talk, talk?"

I sorta wish there was this whole different word that would mean the hippies that talk about the same stuff, but actually do something about it.  I really think permaculture is supposed to be about getting stuff done.  But I'm concerned that most of the advocates don't get stuff done.

And so, I present to you, the south park episode "die, hippie, die".  It stings a bit to watch it.  And, of course, there is a lot humor at the expense of hippies.  But, I think it drives an important point home. 

http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/902/

you know it does seem that there were two groups of people over the last 30 to 40 years that actually did go out and do some stuff in the earth besides just talk..one was the farmers..that went out and grew their mono culture crops..and a few that actually did better.

but then there were the hippies that really did love the earth and work in it..and those people were the ones that really continued to work the earth and stick with it..the ones that subscribed to Mother Earth News when it was first published..

some of them stayed with the desire to work WITH the earth, and some just left for their future corporate lives..

i'm not sure about the younger people that are working WITH the earth..they are a new thing to me..as I am meeting them on forums..now.

I am one of the earth loving hippies I guess..my first gardening experiences were when i was a child in the 1950s and 1960's..and i never left..

the hippy one is a bit hard i woudl rather be with hipies than not, i htink i have hardly ever been with them. then there are a lot of parts of society who don't like them some valuable parts and some just reaccionary.
    If you want farming to be less damaging don't you have to dress up as a banker or what ever carries most weight and get through that way if need be. The hippies i knew turned in to reactionaries and they were much more hippy than i was. The communist i knew has turned into a faschist, it is horrible. Also if i say i like to talk of things like this or politics she says thats for teenagers she is jut good at having an argue ment for what she wants. I can't understand everyone being so unstable, they knew why socialism is important not like connnservatives who have imagined all their life that being a successfull conservative is the reall way to keep the country and all its members going. I could strangle the ones who presumably know whats what and go far right i think i ram really cross with them.
i think th ehppies are a positve element wheter they do anything or not they offer alternative possibilities and in england they say the hippies turned into yuppies so they were successfull but the obviously the stil hippy looking ones ones are the less successful ones. also there is the hippiness in successfull people who you don't think of as hippies. All adults are ineffectual and really boring in South Park, except the cook. agri rose macaskie.

  I think southpark is just abrasive satire. They take the display problems in society as larger than life for cheap/ignorant laughs. Further more people who make south park there social or moral compass should be avoided at all cost.

I Don't argue. I lead. If you want what i have you will follow.

charles johnson "carbonout" wrote:
   I think southpark is just abrasive satire. They take the display problems in society as larger than life for cheap/ignorant laughs. Further more people who make south park there social or moral compass should be avoided at all cost.

I just want to point out that i said" I Think "  so its just how i feel Maybe not how things are

  you do have to defend satire it is the easiest form of opinion for people to absorb a great part of news papers are articles of opinion, we don't have to agree with the opinion but the constant weighing up of all the different opinions around make for a more mentally agil population and a ignorant population may always go for the throat of somone you don't approve of but it may also be swayed to go against you.
  Not everyones opinion will be yours or will be what you agree with but then that goes for everyone.
  Giving opinions can be a excuse for going for other peoples throats or just obstructing other peoples activities. It can be an excuse for bullying, every good idea can be put to a bad use, how constant is the drip of opinions and how exagerated, bullies lie and twist your words and take them out of context or take something  you have once said and use it as an example of your character though they know very well that as a rule you fight for the opposite. Maybe they don't it is so much to their advantage to find others wrong that they lose all objectivity, they only catch the mean or stupid or ignorant things you say. They have not been told that criticism is ego satisfying, if you pull them up they say but you have criticised so and so, lord, a criticism and really going for trying to pull everyone after one person are very different things, the proof of whether you have tried to really lay another low or not is in the pudding, how many epople have you totally isolated, if you have not, then you have criticisesd not gone for the others throat.

    ONe arguement is that you just weren't good enough at doing for others you would if you could. people who go for others throats talk about the importance of really learning others and the more reasonable people talk about being carefull to only go so far.
      Fear plays a part in the actions of those who cut you from your gizzard to your zatch if you step on their toes, if you want your children to be real winners let them think that if they don't get those who criticise them right out of the way, those people will do for them, don't teach them that you criticise a bit but try to make sure you don't take all the peoples frinds or if you see they are really getting freindless or being gnawed to peices you reverse the trend and start to praise them and pull people back towards approving of them. The good teach limits to going for people the dangerouse teach slitting anyone who criticises them throat psychologiaclly an dsocially.
  THere is really a difference between hitting somone so hard yuou break their bones and giving them knock though the canny manage to twist things in such a way as to make the light knock look as if it had murderouse intent and the real hard blow the sustained pressure the rain of blows  look as if it were a light knock.
  Classism and racism and such don't just exist because the world is unfair there is a counsciose or less counsciose attempt to invalidate women or people of african origen or the poor actual twisting the truth maliciosely to protect your priveledge and actually making an effort to keep information out of their way so you can claim your superiority , with out all the information peoples make bad choices.. For instance the magic trick of pretending the poor work less than the rich, the canny know how to spread lies lies that the innocent would never imagine would stick.
You get the poor working for nearly nothing and if they don't really kill themselves doing things for you you pretend they are wasting your time and money. Never mention what they have done, only mention that break they took, is one trick of the less nice or more machevaelian type of leader.

  Is not it one of the things americans are proud of having a population that reads knewspapers and can judge the political situation and vote responsibly. South Park does not have an all out attack on one group, they attack all groups they must be one of the least obectionable types of opinion around. Fox knews has an all out sustained attack on the left, and jon stewart on the right though i would say john stewart keeps himself with in the limits of reasonable and fair criticism and fox is really exagerated.
      I can only imagine the very well heeled morally disliking south park, tholse who have got themselves into a position were everyone believes they are honerable members of society and everyone else the hippies and the poor are the irresponsable ones, an dthose people are somtimes where they are r because they have gullied everyone else, they are in fact lounge potatoes . I live with someone who never mention a job i have done never recognises the importantce of anythign i do and is always ready with a list of thigns i have not done, he does not feear being discredited if he exagerates, he starts pulling you down froom day one when you are busy being loyal and so by the time you realise how he has prepared the ground and start to try to reverse the trend he has won so much ground that your chances of ever recovering are slim. . All i used to do was supportive ,what i now do, looking after my own projects, is a new me who looks after themselves to some extent. I have to learn to earn money too agri rose macaskie.
   

its ok rose your allowed to like south park I only stated my oppion , you don't need to convince me only yourself

There's something wrong if you can't find a little piece of yourself in Southpark. I know lots of people who don't like the show and lots who do. 

All right  !Southpark episodes on my computer....thnx Paul!

paul wheaton wrote:I sorta wish there was this whole different word that would mean the hippies that talk about the same stuff, but actually do something about it. 

Not specific to Hippies, but how's "Activist"?
Add a qualifier in front ie. Natural Farming Activist etc.
Not exactly awe inspiring,  I agree, but it sounds better than Hippie.

I'm a natural goat farmer and cheesemaker working towards a 100% organic, locally sourced product and a low impact self supporting, sustainable community, but I don't own any tiedyed stuff, and my personal hell will have a jam band playing.
Hippie or not Hippie, you decide.

I personally see that the hippie thing can be more of a fashion statement than the result of a lifestyle choice.  I know people who "look" like a hippie but their life styles are just as consumptive as the average person who would never want to be defined as a hippie.  I also know people who look like hippies and it's because of their lifestyle choices.  I don't look much like a hippie but tend to make lifestyle choices that might brand me as an earth muffin, until you see me wearing make up (not every day, but I own some and I like to wear mascara sometimes, dangit) and shooting guns. 

We've been telling people that we are "short strand food web facilitators."  It draws either a blank stare or lots of questions.  I want to make a business card with that title, actually. 

marinajade  -  I like that --

We've been telling people that we are "short strand food web facilitators."  It draws either a blank stare or lots of questions.  I want to make a business card with that title, actually. 

I just might have to borrow that.  (Sorry.  I can't figure out how to do that quote thingy.)
I was there when we weren't sure if we were supposed to spell it 'hippie' or hippy' and we ended up calling ourselves 'freaks.'  That didn't seem to catch on all that well.  I have been frustrated by the inertia that seemed to have happened since.  I know that is why I was drawn to permaculture.  "Now here is something happening!" I thought.  I do believe there are certainly others out there doing great things.  I haven't looked all around here yet but haven't seen Earth Activist Training mentioned.  Anyone ever been part of a permie-blitz?  I gave a free talk at my local library.  Poorly attended but I don't think I have the language yet to reach out to attract any of the uninformed.  Each one teach one.  I don't believe you need any great credentials to give a talk.  Free country, eh?  Speak your passion.  Then follow up your words with deeds.  My backyard in the city is halfway to permed.  My front lawn is gone, this spring there will be more food crops in there.  My next door neighbor manicures his lawn.  We get along just fine because he knows where I'm coming from.  We've talked.
Paul - I'm not sure I know what you mean by "getting stuff done?"  Can you name something specific?
Valerie

lavenderdawn wrote:
Paul - I'm not sure I know what you mean by "getting stuff done?"  Can you name something specific?

How about raising your own food so that 90% of your diet comes from what you raised.

I suspect that most of the hippies in that movie do not do that.

Yep.  I am in total agreement with you on that.  I'm not there yet myself but will be making a huge step towards it this coming year.
Valerie

We often joke up here that Americans dont understand irony!
There are several things you can do with Hippy haters (greenie is also used in a derogitory sense) Compost ,or out yield them, they hate that!!

There are developmental stages in being a hippie. For most , first stage is dropping out of normal society. The hanging out stage. Young folks loitering around with comarades being cool and getting into it. Thats the perception society picked up on and formed the stereotype of "dirty , lazy hippie ". Then you either develop a focus and disappear from the corner hang out because you are on a mission or you revert back into "normalcy". Some descended into dereliction and continued hanging out on the corner usually with a tin cup and a shopping cart. So , somehow you have to fight the stereotype with counter-propaganda.
Who are all those hippies that went on missions and succeeded ? What about the hippies kids who did not have to go through the dropping out stage to enter hippiness ? Who are the role models ? Permaculture has it's own for sure , and if they are not hippies then they certainly are eccentrics . These are some of my favorites { my hippie brain thinks everyone is a hippy deep down} :
Abbie Hoffman - He said the best response when your employer asks you to take a drug test is to adopt your best John Wayne impression and say " Listen Pilgrim , if you want any pee from me your going to have to wring it out of your socks"
Bobby Seale - Black Panther who fought police brutality by flouting Californias gun laws in the face of society - a marxist-libertarian !
Neil Young - Wrote "Ohio" and now is trying to convert a '56 Lincoln Continental to solar power
Joel Salatin - the alternate version I have in my mind who went to Evergreen instead of Bob Jones. He still likes pound cake.
Trey Parker and Mike Stone - Post punk hippies giving everyone equally a good ass chappin
Willie - Roll him up and smoke him when he dies
S.A.M. - Horticulturist , Organic Proponent , developer of rice strains - Peace Activist-" Thinking is more stinking than drinking , but to feel is for real"
What is a good word for such a diverse bunch ? I like "Wierdos"

Southpark is crude sarcasm, but it works because there is a little truth in their highlighting of hypocrisy. They are pretty equal-opportunity bashers, everybody should have been offended by at least one episode by now.