Attaching cattle panel trellis to siding for VA creeper shade in summer

The sun pounds our house all day without shade during the summer.  We have cedar panel siding and they get scorched.  I've heard Virginia Creeper could damage siding but haven't found anything suitable as a replacement in our climate.  I'm open to try others, but regardless, I believe it may make sense to install a wall trellis spaced a few inches away from the siding to mitigate possible damage while also providing airflow.  

Has anyone experience how to install it?  Lag bolts into the framing and then tying the cattle panel against it with thick wire?  

So many variables depending on the building style and landscape.

I would try to avoid drilling into the siding as much as possible, just more opportunity for rot. I’d use chain link top rail to make posts from the ground to the eaves. I’d keep it a foot off the house or more if possible, to let the air circulate a little to keep it dryer. I’d keep the cattle panel up off the ground enough to be able to trim under it and clear leaves and debris as needed.

I'm pretty sure Virgina Creeper is a parasitic vine. Roots along its growth attach to things like trees or house siding, that's how it climbs and how it damages things. I don't know that it would climb well on a trellis, might depend on what it's made of.   It's also perennial and wants to get bigger every year. Its growth is very similar to poison ivy.

In the situation you described, I might go with fast growing annuals like morning glories or even pole beans, maybe a row of sunflowers each year, a foot or so from the wall, or even corn.  

Once you get the trellis built why not try something edible like cucumbers?

Of course a pretty flowering vine would work well too.

Hi, thanks for the replies. I like the top rail idea instead of fastening it although I'd have to see how well my eaves can support it.  It looks like mine are 1/4 - 1/2" painted OSB with a cutout screen for bugs.  It doesn't seem to be secured well and we get tons of flies.  Maybe I can do a combination of the two.  

I actually want to Virginia creeper because it's so strong.  My climate is super dry and it's hard to get anything that can stand the punishment.  I do see creeper used this way, and haven't found anything else suitable.  I would want it to come back every year and hopefully cover the whole side of the house.  The trellis a foot off I would hope could help me keep things under control and provide a space to cut anything that attaches to the house (in theory).  I would hope when it gets thick the shade would also weaken the parts that reach for the house.

I'd love to try these other annuals too.  Including Kiwi.  But again, it's so dry, it's very hard to get anything to survive in this location.  Luvage does great though.  I'm working on getting shade so some of these other ideas could possibly work.

I would not be a fan of punching many unnecessary holes in my siding. A trellis or anything else, attached directly to the house would concentrate humidity, insects, vermin, fungus, and invasive little tendrils, if that is what creeper has, right where you don't want it, on your siding.
Blissfully short sighted, like stacking firewood right against the house. Nor would I hang anything heavy from my eaves.
Cattle/hog panel comes in various widths 3-5 ft., 16ft. long. It is generally a 5ga. galvanized wire, plenty sturdy, self supporting. Similar could be had, not as sturdy, ungalvanized, sold as concrete slab reinforcing.
It would be enough to set a string of posts into the ground, 5+ ft apart, 2 ft. or so from the house, and hang a couple runs of panel. Top rail not needed to hold up wire, but would stabilize the posts, which for a taller fence, like a gable end, could also be simply braced to house. Wire self supporting, vine stabilizes trellis as it matures.
I think creeper is like bermuda grass, with rhizomes, once you have it you have it. If containment is a concern, then big pots or raised beds would help. If the thought of treated wood posts set in concrete keep you breathlessly awake at night, and cedar/redwood is not available, then doug fir posts set on concrete piers with hardware would be fine. Those would absolutely need top bracing. Or maybe a scheme where a planter box helps anchor the posts, if it is as dry as you say.
Also, your friends at the U. of Minnesota, I believe, have a couple of varieties of very cold hardy grapes. Don't know how tall they can grow.

I'm not sure if this might be a wrinkle, but depending how you secure your cattle panel fencing may lead to its eventual collapse.

I secured some cattle panels in an arch shape with both t-posts and securing it against wooden garden boxes. It did wonderful with cucumbers and other annuals but eventually a grape started growing onto it. It worked fine for a while but eventually it got so heavy that it started leaning towards one side threatening to buckle. If you plan on putting a creeper on that will live perpetually, just keep in mind the weight.

Thanks Tommy.  I was going to remind everyone I live in an extremely dry climate but it looks like you do too.  And Timothy, noted about the weight.

Here's pics of the location. The corner is due South. The wall on the left is SW and gets hit the hardest, but I wouldn't want to block the windows.  It's also three stories because the wall out basement.  The SE wall has more real estate and is 1/2 the height (considering weight of everything).

You'll notice I don't have much room.  I'm on the edge of mountain and the grade is steep.  There's only a small path to go around that corner. Camera is aimed down and that's a retaining wall outside the path.

You can see where I started a makeshift hardware cloth version to test this idea.  I pulled it away from the wall on the right to do some painting this fall.  I used long screws into the underlayment and wire to connect to the hardware cloth - this was just a test.  

If lag bolts are really that bad I'll remember that, but it's very dry.  Bugs already get into the house because when it was built they didn't bother to use an air barrier, it's so dry mold has never been an issue.

Wooden posts will take up a lost of space, Tommy.  What about steel pipe set in concrete?  I appreciate your advice so do you really think attaching the steel pipe periodically to the siding and underlayment with a decorative flange would be a bad idea?    

That is a tough, steep, stony, tall build.
Having now seen the picture, I doubt much will grow well there without building some serious additional soil/raised beds. Looking at the limited amount of wall space vs. the window area, difficulty of excavation, encroachment on your property line, I would definitely consider building a trellis system out of steel.
It would be asking a lot of cattle panel to not sag across a span when placed horizontally. Vertically, over your short distances, no problem whatsoever.
You may also consider a screen system. I've done (red) wood trellis in Montana and California, as well as natural finish steel screen/louvers in Arizona, left for the elements to 'patina'.
If you choose to attach to your house, finding framing members next to windows and on corners to anchor will give better yield than the cedar siding over OSB sheeting the walls are made from. I could envision short lengths of pipe, used as a spacers, with 1/4"lag bolts and small clamps/hooks, holding it all up.
You may also consider just putting your time and energy into refinishing your siding for the next ten year stint. Building scaffold for the work would be interesting.
I see you have neighbors, in a house like yours, so living with their opinions is your burden.

Also. The malevolent benevolent socialist public overlords servants of your happy paradise have decreed decided that no Colorado homeowner shall retain more than 110 gallons, (two 55g drums), of rainwater on their property.  If that is a 275g tote you have there....
Naughty, naughty.
In their munificence, the relevant authorities may choose to grant an exemption to those who appear before them, hat in hand, groveling, fill out an application.
If you are hooked to city water, you don't qualify.

I figured only a photo could explain the unique situation of mine.  Very aware of the IBC tote no-no.  I'm up for the battle (and have 3 more).  I've considered installing drip line to argue I'm not actually "storing" anything, just slowing it down.  I'm pretty secluded, one neighbor.  I need new siding, but can't afford it at this time.  Not sure if I can afford this trellis experiment either but cattle panel is cheap if I can tie into the framing like you suggest to hold it.  

Despite how poor the soil looks I can get certain things to thrive.  And VA Creepier would.  (also, luvage, and a gooseberry, haven't tried much else).  

If I held cattle panel in place 6" away from the siding I would still have plenty of room.  I wouldn't mind it disappearing when the leaves drop instead of having a wooden screen there.  I like the patina of a natural screen unless ungalvanized would need to be replaced after rust eats it.  I'd be interested to hear what small clamps to hold it up you were thinking.  Small diameter pipe as spacers would look better than exposed Lag Bolts.  The hooks sound great for additional weight support.

The idea was vertical placement on all to keep it uniform.  Even if it were horizontal it would be supported along the length.  When time comes to replace the siding I would detach, add the much needed air barrier, and reside around the bolts.  

I've had my eyes on Japanese Shou Sugi Ban finishing method (on cedar?) if I win the lottery.  Or an organic option if I want to ease maintenance and be certain about wild fire risk.  (although Shou Sugi Ban is supposed to withstand fire).

I look at the picture of your SW wall and my inner idealist immediately envisions really wide awnings rather than a "wall" of green that would block your view. I'm thinking of kind of a peaked trellis on stilts essentially. Supported from your deck on the one side (and a planter or grow bags there) and anchored in the ground on the high side. Separate from the house but braced to it at a few points. As wide as you can afford, but damn, if I could just run sturdy steel wires or cables over/through a few posts, I would do that. A strong leafy climber might be able to just work its way along and maybe make crosswise lines unnecessary, or maybe it would be successful with very few.

As far as the plants to go on it, I would definitely consult the Plants for a Future database, where you can search by the characteristics you need, (Zone 4, climber, dry soil, etc.). For shade, I'm always looking to grapes or grape-like vines. They grow fast, make great shade, and shed their leaves in the winter. The vines are vigorous and sturdy and will grow along a single wire. Some are quite hardy, and they love dry conditions. I'm not interested at all for this application in them producing actual grapes, I just want them for their big shady leaves.

I searched on PFAF for fun. In the "Search by use and properties" section, I went down to "Habit" (=growth habit) and checked Perennial, Climber, and Perennial Climber; then in "Hardiness USDA" I clicked zones 1, 2, 3, 4; in "Growth rate" I chose Fast; in "Shade" I chose None (meaning it grows in full sun); in "Moisture" I chose Dry Soil — and then I clicked Search. This netted a list of maybe 50 plants, including 5 grape varieties, so I bet you can find something that works for you and is not invasive, won't root into your house, etc.

Just a thought... might turn out cheaper too...

Dave de Basque wrote:…

I love these suggestions!  
I didn’t intend to cover those windows but to cut the cattle panels around them. I did assume that wall may be too high for the dry and tough conditions in my climate, but thought VA creeper may work. I love the idea of trying these other plants and did not know about this database!  I will certainly check this out.

An awning would be great for these windows but we get 80+mph gusts and would hate them to rip off. I use exterior sun shades on those which considerably made a difference keeping our home cooler— with the interior cellular shades up it’s even cooler than before we have the exterior shades). The only problem was the wind, so I secured wires to keep it in place.

I love the idea of simply training vines up wires!

First, I will admit I needed to read this quickly, which has left me a little confused (Canadian in a very different climate.)

However, we bought a house with Wisteria planted by a north deck, so I will just give you my experiences.
1. Wisteria is *very* hard to kill. It is considered invasive in many places. It provides me lots of biomass (lots of leaves) but it needs constant supervision during the growing season. Its growth tendrils can sneak through gaps that bugs can't sneak through. If VC can do *any* of those things I would absolutely not plant it that close to your house.

2. It more or less has destroyed that corner of the deck despite our summer drought. However, we have times of the year with a lot of dew, and you sound too dry for that?

3. Seeing your picture, if you could build your trellis up the slope (there's a bit of the bottom of a T-bar in the bottom right corner of the picture I'm thinking of), zigzagging it enough to help it to be self-supporting and simply use it's shadow to provide the shade you're looking for, I think that's what I would try. Using drought tolerant ground cover could help the vines get established.

4. This would also shade the path for walking on in the summer.

5. I would consider the sight lines of the view out of the windows. Ie. do you look out the windows when standing, when sitting, from specific angles, multiples of these options? I would then train the young vines up the trellis avoiding the specific sight lines with judicious pruning. It would be as if you added a lovely green "frame" to the view! If you're using grape vines as your plant, you could even alter the view for different seasons to some extent.

6. Kiwi vines need a *lot* of water and are harder to control than grape vines from my experience. (but that's based on my climate also)

7. I don't know where the winter winds blow in your picture, but you may find that the trellis can help to break up or redirect the winds to help that side of the house stay a bit warmer in the winter also.

I do not think there's one right answer to your challenge. If you think you have any hope of growing heat loving beans between the vines you choose, they may give you fast growth while the vines are getting established even if you have to water them.

S. Marshall wrote:

Dave de Basque wrote:…

I love these suggestions!  
I didn’t intend to cover those windows but to cut the cattle panels around them. I did assume that wall may be too high for the dry and tough conditions in my climate, but thought VA creeper may work. I love the idea of trying these other plants and did not know about this database!  I will certainly check this out.

An awning would be great for these windows but we get 80+mph gusts and would hate them to rip off. I use exterior sun shades on those which considerably made a difference keeping our home cooler— with the interior cellular shades up it’s even cooler than before we have the exterior shades). The only problem was the wind, so I secured wires to keep it in place.

I love the idea of simply training vines up wires!

Hey S, glad you like the ideas and definitely do check out the PFAF database — it's a gold mine! Those folks put in a lot of work to help people like us with plant varieties.

I think I need to try to explain myself better as far as what I'm envisioning. So first of all, no it's not a "real" awning, it's just leafy vines trained to work like a real awning. I have started to do that on the south-facing wall of my flat which also gets real toasty in the summertime. And where we also get some pretty brutal windstorms a few times a year that send anything that is not weighed down flying and rip any real awnings that anyone left open to shreds. The grape vines last year suffered in the windstorms but survived, so they seem a lot stronger than a "real" awning.

What I would do to build what I'm thinking of is set a series of metal posts in concrete in three rows. One parallel to the SE side of your house and continuing that side towards where you took the second photo from. The height would be the height of the bottom of your roof at that side or a bit lower. The second row of posts would go in the middle of your SW wall, starting from the peak of your roof, and up to the height (or almost) of the peak. The third row would sit on your deck and go up to the height (or almost) of the edge of the roof there, and parallel to the other two rows. Anchored in maybe a concrete block or something and braced maybe against the railing.

So I would run sturdy wires through the tops of the posts, following your roofline, maybe a bit lower than your actual roof. I think you'll need wires about 30cm/1ft max. apart to get good leaf coverage. If you can find a way to get a few cross wires going, especially on the diagonal 45-degree-ish, the way the vine's shoots will be growing, that will enhance coverage.

This will make kind of a "tunnel" of green that will be as if your roof and the sides of your house extended further. How far is up to you. In Denver at the very end of summer (~Sept 20) and at 4pm, the sun will be at 22°, so that is possibly the lowest sun angle you'll want to protect against. Run a line from the lowest place on your building you need shaded, out at 22°, and that should be the end of your "tunnel." To simplify a bit. I don't know if I'm explaining myself so that you can see what I'm seeing, but hopefully.

Run grapes (or whatever vine you settle on) up those wires and sit back and relax. It might take 2 years for them to grow long enough to get full coverage up at the peak. Make sure you get a sturdy vine like a grape that won't collapse back on itself as it grows uphill at the angle of your roof.

This is just my theory by the way, I have not trained grapes to crawl up a bare wire at a steep angle like the angle of your roof, but my instincts say this will work fine, especially if you can get a few crosswires going somehow. I don't want to be on that ladder personally with the terrain you've got, but maybe there's something a bit hillbilly style that you can rig up throwing a spool of thinner wire over the main wires once they're set up... those kind of things are above my pay grade though, it's just an idea.