Can I use manure instead of soil on a tall hugel bed?

I have access to endless supplies of free animal poop, from a variety of animals.

Long story short, I live in a teeny tiny rural community of people that seem to be into livestock more than gardening (or so I can tell as I'm fairly new, just a few months in). I'm setting up an urban food forest and nursery (I have about 3/4 acre total).

I had two humungous piles of goat poop dropped off today, for instance.

I have plans to create some rather large and tall hugel beds (plenty of dead trees on my property and in town for this) and was wondering if there was any reason why I couldn't use manure in the layers instead of soil. I realize I would not be able to plant right away, obviously, But I have plenty of space and am looking longterm so that is not a worry.

My plan would be to do a biochar pit, then build a hugel on top using logs and then cover with hay/grass clippings/twigs/branches as a top mulch. It's windy here (SE CO, desert plains ecosystem, zone 5b/6a) so I would probably do the cool "make a u-shaped nail out of branches" idea I saw somewhere, maybe even use hemp netting temporarily until I can plant it.

There would be some soil mixed in because I would be digging the pit for the biochar.

It seems like a good idea, but I'm still a beginner and didn't take chemistry in college (really regretting that now).

My question... is it a good idea? How long would it take to be okay to plant?

Also, I do know enough to know that there are a variety of factors that could affect your answers. I appreciate any clarifying questions and responses.

Thanks for any help!

I would think your approach would work given enough time for everything to break down.  I would also use cardboard and shredded paper in the mix, I know that Paul frowns on their use.  I've used both for many years.

Any material coming from off site should be checked for "toxic" stuff, if you can use only material from organic or better farms.  To check the manure, mix a small amount with some "clean" soil or potting mixture and plant 10 beans.  They should break the soil in 7 to 10 days, then check their growth and leaf shape for any leaves that are of a funny shape or the stems looking odd, if all the new plants appear "normal" then the manure is most likely ok to use.  If not have it hauled away, some of the "Toxic Fairy Dust" in use today will last forever !  So please be careful.

Keep us posted as you go along, I would love to see some pics !

Peace

A few things:
1. Soil will settle, but it doesn't reduce in volume as much as compostables do. So if you use animal manure, you will likely have to do a lot of topping up. I would try to put some of the manure in an empty space to do a bunch of that composting while the compost covered hugel is composting in place, and then some well composted manure will be available for either top-dressing, or filling planting holes with.

2. As Deane warned, there are some very long acting gicks used on a lot of hay-fields which broad leaf plants won't like at all. I know this because I got a bad batch somewhere, and I'm pretty careful. It's got to have been a decade in quarantine and is only starting to grow hardy broad leaf weeds. It might have recovered sooner with more effort on my part (mushroom slurry might really help) but it wasn't in a fenced area and I have heavy deer and bunny pressure.

3. No matter what, a hugel will settle a lot if it's been hand built, so I'd focus on annuals or biennials until you get a feel for how much extra material you might need to add. Having biochar as part of the process will be great to help maintain a healthy biome.

Another thing to be aware of besides the ikky stuff they spray on crops is dewormer meds used for goats.

When I built Humphrey D. Hugelhump there was a lot of cow & horse manure in the planting medium. Roughly 25% manures & 75% soil. In addition to the logs & other organic matter. It was mostly already decomposed quite well but it still did shrink a foot or two the first year & developed a few cracks that needed to be filled.

Absolutely, go for it! Once the temperature reaches above 50ºF outside at night, dump a bunch of red wiggler compost worms on that hügel to work on converting that manure into soil. They'll die off when the winter hits, fertilizing even more. Just don't let your chickens or ducks see you add the worms to it.

Andria, congrats on scoring a big pile of goat pooh...'When God gives you poop, make compost." (OK, I improvised that) Nonetheless, if you put a pound or two of red wigglers into that pile of goat doodles, they will make you some lovely vermi compost that you can add to your Hugle...If you have access to manure, worms are the way to go. Vermi castings here in Indiana sell for $2 and go up from there. VC is amazing stuff!

Deane Adams wrote:I would think your approach would work given enough time for everything to break down.  I would also use cardboard and shredded paper in the mix, I know that Paul frowns on their use.  I've used both for many years.

Any material coming from off site should be checked for "toxic" stuff, if you can use only material from organic or better farms.  To check the manure, mix a small amount with some "clean" soil or potting mixture and plant 10 beans.  They should break the soil in 7 to 10 days, then check their growth and leaf shape for any leaves that are of a funny shape or the stems looking odd, if all the new plants appear "normal" then the manure is most likely ok to use.  If not have it hauled away, some of the "Toxic Fairy Dust" in use today will last forever !  So please be careful.

Keep us posted as you go along, I would love to see some pics !

Peace

--- fair enough... I will see if I can get some information. I know that after I posted I found out that this manure (at least a good portion of it) was really old... like he had never thoroughly cleaned the area before or something. I don't know livestock at all so I don't always catch everything said about it so I might've misunderstood. There is some fresh stuff too, but it seems to be 10-20% at most.

I'm unclear if "toxic fairy dust" is an actual reference to something specific or just the general idea is of yucky things that can get into poop... thanks!

Jay Angler wrote:A few things:
1. Soil will settle, but it doesn't reduce in volume as much as compostables do. So if you use animal manure, you will likely have to do a lot of topping up. I would try to put some of the manure in an empty space to do a bunch of that composting while the compost covered hugel is composting in place, and then some well composted manure will be available for either top-dressing, or filling planting holes with.

2. As Deane warned, there are some very long acting gicks used on a lot of hay-fields which broad leaf plants won't like at all. I know this because I got a bad batch somewhere, and I'm pretty careful. It's got to have been a decade in quarantine and is only starting to grow hardy broad leaf weeds. It might have recovered sooner with more effort on my part (mushroom slurry might really help) but it wasn't in a fenced area and I have heavy deer and bunny pressure.

3. No matter what, a hugel will settle a lot if it's been hand built, so I'd focus on annuals or biennials until you get a feel for how much extra material you might need to add. Having biochar as part of the process will be great to help maintain a healthy biome.

Hi, thank you!

Okay, that makes total sense that manure would settle more than soil... that's not really a problem for me.

What is a "long acting gick"... I've never heard of a gick before... I do plan on spreading different types of mushrooms throughout so that is more encouragement to do so..

This first hugel or two that are closest to the house... I was planning on just doing annuals/herbs (things that I want to use in my kitchen and stuff in my face :P) then cover cropping in the winter so I'm not worried about it needing to be a certain height or whatever. For me the tall hugels... I am more assuming they will break down and become raised rows over time so that works for me. ;-)

Mike Barkley wrote:Another thing to be aware of besides the ikky stuff they spray on crops is dewormer meds used for goats.

When I built Humphrey D. Hugelhump there was a lot of cow & horse manure in the planting medium. Roughly 25% manures & 75% soil. In addition to the logs & other organic matter. It was mostly already decomposed quite well but it still did shrink a foot or two the first year & developed a few cracks that needed to be filled.

Ha, I loved the photos of your build and obviously the amazing name. TeeHee, made me grin.

As it turns out, I probably won't do the hugel builds until next winter now because I probably can't burn the biochar pit except when there is snow on the ground (here in Colorado). Plus, I need to get a deer fence up. Good times.

Thanks for the tips and the the Hugel Hump story. :-)

John Duffy wrote:Andria, congrats on scoring a big pile of goat pooh...'When God gives you poop, make compost." (OK, I improvised that) Nonetheless, if you put a pound or two of red wigglers into that pile of goat doodles, they will make you some lovely vermi compost that you can add to your Hugle...If you have access to manure, worms are the way to go. Vermi castings here in Indiana sell for $2 and go up from there. VC is amazing stuff!

Hey, you are right. I assumed that the "worms would come", and although that is probably true...  I can certainly speed up the process. I will probably add worms in early May, to stay on the safe side here in Colorado. I want to start vermicomposting also, but I have so many projects happening right now. I found an old metal filing cabinet left in the basement... first I was thinking... let's paint it for fabric storage (I have a sewing compulsion), but then I thought it would be a good option for a worm hotel! I think the kids (niece and nephew) would get a kick out of it and so would I. What do you think about this idea?

E Sager wrote:Absolutely, go for it! Once the temperature reaches above 50ºF outside at night, dump a bunch of red wiggler compost worms on that hügel to work on converting that manure into soil. They'll die off when the winter hits, fertilizing even more. Just don't let your chickens or ducks see you add the worms to it.

Hey! yes, thanks for the idea. I don't have any livestock yet although some days with this house renovation, I might want to throw myself into the compost heap (but mostly I threaten to set up my hefty canvas tent and live in that instead of this crazy house). LOL. Thanks for the comment, will definitely do this. Have a great weekend!