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earthen floor

earthen floor outdoor

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posted 6 months ago

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Hi all,

I have some outdoor space with a big tree in the middle and I wanted to know if can I put earthen floor around it (leaving some space for the base of the tree).
My main questions are how feasible it is. I read the top oil usually applied is optional, is it this true also for outdoor (if at all) or will the rain eventually carry away (or down) the fine soil and reveal the gravel-foundation?

Thank you!

Anne Miller

steward

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Location: USDA Zone 8a

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posted 6 months ago

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Nestor, welcome to the forum!

That is an interesting idea and I am looking forward to what other folks have to say about this.

I found this one that might help you or others:

https://permies.com/t/46475/Earthen-floor

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Nina Surya

rocket scientist

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Location: in the Middle Earth of France (18), zone 8a-8b

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posted 6 months ago

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Hi Nestor,

Welcome to Permies!
Where are you located? (You can add your location to your profile if you like.)

As with so many things, I think the answer might be: it depends - depending on the local rainfall, temperatures etc.
Also, my gut feeling says you can have an earthen, packed, open space around the tree, but just don't seal it.
The more (foot) traffic it gets, the barer it will stay.

The tree will need water to survive. Packing the soil surface will make it difficult for rainwater to penetrate the soil to reach the roots, water will have the tendency to run off a packed, bare soil. So unless there's an underground stream or trickle for the tree to drink from, I'm afraid this plan might have a negative effect on the health of the tree.

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Nestor Houbidis

Posts: 5

posted 6 months ago

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Thanks for the welcome and the quick replies!
The location is on Crete, Greece. So Mediterranean weather (summer up to 40 C but usually 30-35C no rain at all, winter 10-20 C never snow)
Thats exactly the reason why I am afraid to seal the surroundings of the tree. Even though, I have to admit that the tree is a massive 15m carob tree which I dont think needs a lot of water anyway and the root system must be extensive. Still, as the tree is the main Star of the house i dont want to risk it.
There will be only summer usage, but not heavy traffic.

I dont care so much of it doesnt look perfect, its meant to be for an old farm house anyway. But i wonder what happens to the soil if not sealed.

note: apparently Crete is zone 10 climate according to some maps i found online

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 4148

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

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posted 6 months ago

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Soil cement pathways are a thing, they did it at my college at least into the 90’s. They would till in Portland and lime chips, level and crown it, then pack it and top with a thin layer of lime chips. It basically acted like a dirt path that didn’t get muddy. Tiller, drop spreader, sprayer (for water), and a sod roller. All standard landscape tools, done by the regular maintenance crew, and could do it extremely quickly.

They probably switched to concrete for handicap access, but it was an easy cheap solution.

For your situation, I would do the same thing but skip the Portland. The key is to get the slope right to direct the water to where you want it. You can funnel a portion to the tree, leave the drip line mostly permeable, and make sure to not puddle.

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Nestor Houbidis

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posted 6 months ago

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Thanks Scott. Unfortunately, this is not an option for me. I dont want to have a rock solid block

R Scott

pollinator

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Location: Kansas Zone 6a

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posted 6 months ago

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It isn’t a rock solid block, think of it like a hard packed path that doesn’t get muddy in the rain. You can make it solid earthen colored concrete if you add enough cement and pack out like rammed earth, but you don’t have to.

James Alun

gardener

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posted 6 months ago

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Could you go for gravel around the tree?

That would be permeable, fairly hard wearing and not involve cement.

Possibly higher maintenance?

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Nestor Houbidis

Posts: 5

posted 6 months ago

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R Scott wrote:It isn’t a rock solid block, think of it like a hard packed path that doesn’t get muddy in the rain. You can make it solid earthen colored concrete if you add enough cement and pack out like rammed earth, but you don’t have to.

oh i am sorry! i misunderstood!
Now this sounds actually interesting! could you please describe me in more detail how to do this? is this essentially just packed soil?

R Scott

pollinator

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Location: Kansas Zone 6a

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posted 6 months ago

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Yes, basically packed soil. With extra lime in the top 4” or so to firm it up a bit when wet. You can mix in the lime with a tiller or a shovel/fork if you are up to the work. Level it really well with a rake, nice crown with no low spots to puddle, then tamp it a little-enough to keep it together but not a full brick. Getting the grade right is the most important part.

Nestor Houbidis

Posts: 5

posted 6 months ago

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R Scott wrote:Yes, basically packed soil. With extra lime in the top 4” or so to firm it up a bit when wet. You can mix in the lime with a tiller or a shovel/fork if you are up to the work. Level it really well with a rake, nice crown with no low spots to puddle, then tamp it a little-enough to keep it together but not a full brick. Getting the grade right is the most important part.

thank you! i will do research on it!
Is there a reason to worry about lime altering the pH around the tree?

Dave Lucey

pollinator

Posts: 66

Location: Western Washington - 48.2°N, Zone 8a

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posted 6 months ago

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The big concern with any sort of compacted surface is damage to roots. With carob being such a deep rooted tree, this is likely less of an issue. I think it will depend on the method and degree of compaction.

If you are worried about soil intrusion in your gravel layer, take a look at road cloth. It is used during road construction under the road bed to keep the base rock layer from sinking into the muddy soil below. It permits water through it, but is tight enough to not permit soil through. You may be able to do similar things with weed barrier or shade cloth, but the road cloth is specifically meant to be buried, so shouldn't break down. It is pricey though. Then you could put your soil on top of it and keep the natural look, without it all sinking into the gravel layer.

As far as lime, I'd avoid it. Carob likes a slightly acidic soil, which it won't be with all that lime over time. The long term effect will be to cause nutrient availability problems.

Just my $0.02.

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R Scott

pollinator

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Location: Kansas Zone 6a

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posted 6 months ago

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PH is probably a concern, I am so used to overly acidic soil that it completely slipped my mind. It isn’t as much of an issue than adding it to fluffy well draining soil, it simply will sit in the upper packed layer and not wash into the roots because it is not infiltrating water.

You could also do a flagstone walkway, simply sand bedded rock if you have it available. But definitely more money if you have to buy it.

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