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greenhouses

My green/hoop-house thingy build

Joshua States

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posted 5 months ago

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I didn't have a garden last year as we prepared to move, and this year I need to build a new garden structure. The structure has three main purposes:
1. Provide a place to grow food.
2. Provide protection from the other forest inhabitants
3. Extend the growing season somewhat.

I have done a bunch of reading and video watching on various greenhouses and hoophouses, raised beds, and other systems. I am building a combination raised bed hoophouse where the hoop is supported on top of tall, raised beds.
Here is phase one where I set the base for the building out of pressure treated 4x4s on a built-up earthen pad and a couple inches of gravel.
The pad is behind our workshop. It gets fairly good sun exposure through the day, with a couple of tall pines providing shade during different times during the day. Maybe not the ideal location, but it was the only spot approved by the Corporate Office.
It took quite a lot of dirt to raise one end to match the other as there was about 18-inches of elevation difference in 20 feet.

The structure will measure 20ft x 10 feet under the hoop, and the design requires the base be slightly over-sized. The 4x4s making the base are notched and joined.

The base laid on the pad and squared. The pad was still about 3-inches out of level from one end to the other. So, leveling the base was not an option. Using strings and a laser level, I leveled the two short ends from corner to corner and flat planed the base from one short side to the other.

The notched corners look like this and will be screwed together with 4 screws 3-inches long. The long sides have a similar joint to achieve the 20-feet of length required, but that joint has a 6-inch overlap and six screws holding it together.

To keep the base from shifting during construction and provide some lateral stability in use, I forged points on some 18-inch rebar stakes, drilled holes through the 4x4 base pieces and anchored the base.

Today I hope to start building the short frame walls that will become the hoop supports and the backs of the raised beds.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

Joshua States

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posted 4 months ago

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Phase two of the build: Framing the walls.

I will start with the longer walls. These are 20 feet long and 3 feet tall. The hoop roof structure will rest on top of these walls. That will put the apex of the hoop at about 8 ft-4 inches above the walking surface.
I laid out the plates and cut studs. The walls are framed resting on the base and some 4x4 cut-offs. These will become the back walls of the garden beds.

After squaring the wall and tacking the corners down to keep it square, I started nailing some OSB sheathing to what will be the inside of the wall. I am letting the OSB overhang the bottom of the wall enough to cover the 4x4 base. This allows me to do two things:
1. Nail the OSB to the base to keep the wall plumb and connected to the base.
2. separate the pressure treated base lumber from the soil in the bed.

The OBS needs to be notched out where the wall rests on the short wall base.

With the wall fully sheathed, I can apply the waterproofing. This is a peel & stick membrane used in roofing applications. It came in a 1000 ft roll. I rolled out enough to cover the wall, cut it to length, and rolled the cut piece up again to start adhering it to the OSB.

With the waterproofing fully adhered, I trimmed off the excess and the wall is now ready to nail down to the base.

The other long wall is next. The shorter walls will be done once the two long walls are in place. The old guy is not as fast as he used to be, and the weather is not exactly cooperating either. So, it may be a few days before I can get back to this project.
In the meantime, I may have to do some forge therapy and start making a few knives for commissions.

I really do need to get this thing built. Some of my indoor bean starts already have blossoms on them. Note to self: start indoor planting later next year.

Joshua States

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posted 4 months ago

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Some minor progress.
All four walls have been waterproofed and stood up. They are nailed to the base and to each other. Everything is plumb and squared.
The front view where the door will be.

The view down the side. The total length is 20 feet.

The water proofing only goes 30 inches out from the corner on the short walls. This will be the width of the beds. The boards that make the sides of the beds with inset into the end walls.
So, I wrapped the waterproofing around the stud at this point. The bed boards will nail over the wrapped waterproofing.

I also covered and sealed the inside corners where the walls meet.

Next up is building the beds. We have to go into town tomorrow and this will wait until Wednesday.

Joshua States

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posted 4 months ago

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Today I laid out the bed lines and set the 4x4 post bases. The 4x4 posts will serve two functions:
1. They will support the roof beams and 2. they will provide a center attachment/support for the bed walls.
The beds are 27 inches tall (68,6 cm). This will be accomplished by stacking (2) 2x12 boards and (1) 2x6 board. The first board will be a 2x12 and it needs to be notched to fit around the base and inset into the wall.

Pro tip: When you are building anything from the ground up, stringline is important to have on hand.
Here I stretched a tight string from one end wall to the other where the inside, top edge of the bottom board will be.

This allows me to set the post base at the seam and get it almost exactly where I need that post. These post bases: https://www.homedepot.com/p/LTL-Home-Products-Groundmaster-30-in-Gray-Post-GM-30/100039044
You just hammer them in with a big sledge and pray to the Gods of your choice they go in straight and plumb. If they don't, (mine didn't), you will need to notch the 4x4 post to get a precise fit. (more on that later)
Use a cutoff of a 4x4 inside the base to hammer on.

I got both post bases set this afternoon as I spent the morning finishing up a sheath for a knife I recently made and forging some kitchen knives for commissions.

The bed boards will be moved out of the way to set the posts and the roof beams. I can always come back and reset the stringlines to finish building the beds.

Joshua States

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posted 4 months ago

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I told you I would show you how to correct that twisted post base and here it is.
Set the post in the base and brace it off plumb in both directions.

Measure the distance from the bed boards on both corners. These will be different measurements. One corner was 1/2' off the board, the other corner was 7/8" off the board.
Mark the top edge of the post base on the post.

Take the post out and draw the lines around to identify what needs to be removed.

Time to break out the hand saw. The top cut that is the top of the post base is a straight line, but it is a deeper cut at one end than the other.
The slice up the post is at an angle across the bottom of the post.

Clean up with chisels.

Insert the post back in the base and brace it plumb again. Checking the fit.

The post supports the center of the beam run. The ends of the beams are supported on wing-walls framed alongside the door and window framing. I have run stringlines from the top of one wing-wall to the other.

With the post braced and set in the base, the strings show the lines to cut the steps for the beam.

Shim the post in the base and tighten the bolts

Set the beams on the wing-walls and the post and nail them in place.

Repeat for the other beam on this side. Move to the other side post and repeat.

Joshua States

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posted 4 months ago

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We got all three beams set, put the center one up this afternoon. It is (2) 2x8 boards 20 feet long.

It needs some additional support at the halfway point to keep it straight and take some weight off the beam, so I added a couple of 4x4 braces down to the two posts.

Now to start the beds. I am using a scorch and oil technique to waterproof the boards. I'm not charring the wood. It's a light scorching to open the grain and provide a tough "skin".

That's a roofing torch, but you can also use a weed burner or similar propane fired torch.
I also do the ends and edges.

Then I apply a liberal coating of boiled linseed oil.

When finished, you let them dry, and the oil will harden.

I may do the outsides of the beds as well. I use this technique on some softwoods for knife handles. I really like the look of it, and it holds up really well over time.

Kevin Olson

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posted 4 months ago

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Joshua -

I didn't comment earlier, but I am watching your build with keen interest.

Though I probably won't do exactly what you have done, I do need to put up some sort of season stretcher over some existing raised beds. And soon-ish. We have starts that are blossoming (pinched off, so far, but they need to go in the ground, and we still had a hard frost this AM - nominal frost free date is June 1, here).

Anyway, thanks for documenting your build.

Kevin

"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp,
Or what's a heaven for?"
Andrea del Sarto by Robert Browning

Joshua States

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posted 4 months ago

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Kevin Olson wrote:Joshua -

I didn't comment earlier, but I am watching your build with keen interest.

Though I probably won't do exactly what you have done, I do need to put up some sort of season stretcher over some existing raised beds. And soon-ish. We have starts that are blossoming (pinched off, so far, but they need to go in the ground, and we still had a hard frost this AM - nominal frost free date is June 1, here).

Anyway, thanks for documenting your build.

Kevin

I'm happy that you are finding it at least somewhat useful. I'll give a little preview of what's to come so maybe you can add the ideas to your own build.

The "hoops" will go from the top of one side wall, up and over the beams, and down to the other side wall. The "hoops" will be made from these cattle fence panels: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/feedlot-panel-cattle-16-ft-l-x-50-in-h
They also make some that are 8 ft long. The 16-ft length makes for a semi-circle with a 10-ft diameter. These will get stapled down to the tops of the walls and each beam. The hoops will be covered with 8-mil greenhouse film from Bootstrap Farmer. The width of the green/hoop house is 10 ft-7 inches from outside edge of wall to outside edge of wall. This brings the panels down about 2-1/2 inches from the outside wall edge. This allows me to secure the film to the top of the wall with a standard 2x3 furring strip.

Once I get the beds built, I can start filling them and close in the inside lower portions of the end walls. Once I get the hoops in place, I can frame in the upper end walls, set the door, and frame in the window vent.

Joshua States

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posted 4 months ago

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Bed building day.
I set up the stringlines for the first row of boards, cleared away some gravel to get the top edge on the line, and set the boards.

The bottom at the post will get drilled straight through the post base and screwed to the post. (2-1/2" coated deck screws)

The 10 ft span may be a little much considering how deep these beds will be, so I am setting a midway support. This is a 2x12 cut to fit between the bed board and the back wall. The bed boards get screwed to the support and the support gets screwed to a 2x4 in the back wall. This is non-structural. It just needs to spread out the force and keep the screw from being pulled through the OSB sheathing.

The second row of bed boards is a 2x6. The second row of center supports is another 2x12. These will be totally below the soil line.

The third row of bed boards is another 2x12. All three rows get screwed to the end wall with 2-1/2" screws.

The edges of the bed boards get a bead os silicone caulk as do all the interior seams where the boards attach to the end wall.
The first bed done.

Both beds done. The tops of the center supports are about 5-1/2 inches below the top of the bed. That should give enough soil cover for planting. The roots can find their way around the support.

The backstop 2x4 behind the center supports. I used 3-inch screws to attach the supports here.

We are taking Liz's artwork to a show in Flagstaff, so it will be a couple of days before I get back to this.

Joshua States

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posted 4 months ago

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It's been a while I know, but things have been going at the pace of the Crusades.
Filling these beds has been a lot of work. First thing to do was put in a layer of dead and half-rotten wood. I just happen to have several piles of that lying about.

After putting a layer of that in the bottom, I filled the voids between the logs/chunks with wood chips and other organic debris.

This got a healthy serving of compost starter, a little water, and let set overnight. This compost starter: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/espoma-organic-compost-starter-cs4
Then, another layer of dead wood, covered with leaf mulch, biochar, pine needles, twigs and whatever else I could shovel up and throw over it. Another helping of compost starter sprinkled over that.

Then I took large pieces of pine bark and put them in the cement mixer with a couple of big rocks to make hand-sized chunks. A layer of about 3 inches over the top

Now I will start layering the soil to get somewhere around 10-12 inches of soil. This will be a mixture of the local sandy/clay with some good, composted soil I moved from my garden in AZ.
Currently, I have almost half the beds done to this point. Tomorrow, I can finish the pine bark chunks and start closing in the end walls.

Joshua States

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posted 4 months ago

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I also got the fence panels placed for the roof structure.
The first panel went up and it did not want to make the semi-circle I had planned. It was about 6 inches above the top beam.

So, I got to thinking (dangerous business) that I kind of preferred the gothic arch rather than a semi-circle for snow shedding purposes.
This meant raising the center beam about 7 inches and stacking a 2x4 on the other two beams.

The panels are stapled to the tops of the sidewalls, and stapled to the beams. If I had just been about 2 inches taller, I could have reached over the edge of each panel. I had to put in a couple of staples for each panel from below by reaching up through the panel and hammering downward.
Yes, it was as uncomfortable as it sounds.

The whole roof structure is quite rigid. There is almost zero movement to cause rubbing and tearing of the greenhouse film (when I get around to installing it).

Joshua States

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posted 3 months ago

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On to the siding and closing in the end walls.
I had some leftover insulation from the steel building that became our workshop. It's some hi-tech stuff. Not exactly the kind of thing that you think of when you consider "environmentally friendly" building materials, but I have it and that means I spend less $. It's not very thick, only 1/4" foam double-faced with some shiny radiant barrier. It's rated at R-17 for insulation purposes and serves as a vapor barrier as well.

This was attached to the outside of the frame walls with roofing nails.

The siding is some lightweight corrugated steel panels attached with those self-tapping screws with the rubber washers.

The corporate office wanted them arranged horizontally and these will also be painted eventually.
A wood corner trim out of 1x3 provides a stop point.

We replaced the front door on the house a few months ago, so there was this exterior door hanging around. A little overkill I'll admit, but again, I had it.

The end wall framing got filled in enough to secure the plastic greenhouse film and sheathing.
So, now all that is left is to mix the soil and fill the last of the beds, stretch the greenhouse film over the top and button it down with the last bits of wood trim.

Joshua States

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posted 3 months ago

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Today was dirt day.
The local soil is rather poor. It's a mixture of sand, and clay with a whole bunch of limestone. So, it needs some serious amendment to work well.

Folks out here make do with it as-is, but I moved about ten 30- & 40-gallon pails of composted & cultured dirt out of my previous container garden from AZ to use in the new garden.

I mixed the two of them in my little cement mixer at a ratio of 12 shovels of local to 10 shovels of composted, added some perlite, coconut coir, powdered biochar, and a couple of handfuls of Mycorrhizae rich organic fertilizer.

This got layered into the beds to a depth of about 5 inches. a few inches short of what I thought I could get.

Now I have to decide whether I want to purchase more soil, just add a few inches of local soil, or something else.
Any ideas out there?

Joshua States

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posted 3 months ago

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Today we put the greenhouse film on it.
I apologize we didn't get many process pics during the event. Here are the pics after finishing.
Looking through the front door. The edges of the metal fence panels were covered with some strips of the same rubber roofing material to keep sharp edges protected from tearing the film as it bent over the end. All folds and laps are stapled and taped with the special tape for the film.

The film comes over the long sides and is held down with a 1x3 screwed to the top of the bed wall. This was covered by a drip edge flashing material. I have a gutter planned and will update this post when it gets installed. The idea is to capture rain water and use it to water the plants.

The rear vent window is covered with hardware cloth. I will build a small frame covered with plastic sheathing that can slip into the opening from the inside for use in the winter. Two smaller vent windows are planned for the front wall.

And that is a wrap. (pun intended) Tomorrow we spread some more dirt and plant it. Any comments, suggestions, or criticism is welcome.

Douglas Alpenstock

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posted 3 months ago

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Hey Joshua. Just stumbled upon this thread. Brilliant! Thanks for sharing the process. Cheers!

Jay Angler

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posted 3 months ago

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I think it's a life rule... you never have as much soil as you think you have or as much as you really need. I sorrow with you, but don't know your ecosystem enough to suggest how to create more soil. I have found that growing in straight compost isn't that effective either.

Patience is a virtue - so if time allows, you might try growing a polyculture in some native soil to "improve" it for next year? Use whatever extra seeds you can scrounge or get cheap and do a lot of chop and dropping over the summer/fall and see how it goes?

Visit Redhawk's soil series: https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil
How permies.com works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads

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Joshua States

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posted 3 months ago

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Jay Angler wrote:I think it's a life rule... you never have as much soil as you think you have or as much as you really need. I sorrow with you, but don't know your ecosystem enough to suggest how to create more soil. I have found that growing in straight compost isn't that effective either.

Patience is a virtue - so if time allows, you might try growing a polyculture in some native soil to "improve" it for next year? Use whatever extra seeds you can scrounge or get cheap and do a lot of chop and dropping over the summer/fall and see how it goes?

I recently read some articles on how the Inca and pre-Columbian cultures in Peru used charcoal to improve the soil for agriculture. It is still practiced today in many remote villages to create Terra Preta, a dark, rich soil prime for growing crops.
This was the primary reason I was mixing a bunch of charcoal into the soil mix. I still have a couple of 40-gallon pails of charcoal I made a few years ago. I thought I did a post here on my charcoal making operation, but I cannot find it. Perhaps I am misremembering and should put one up.

I use a modified cement mixer barrel for the kettle, it's not a "real" retort system.

The charcoal is pretty chunky. I crushed it down to add to the soil.

I still have two and a half of those barrels left. I was planning on doing some iron ore smelting but never got around to it. I used some in my solid-fuel forge, gave some away, and mix it into my compost regularly.

Suzie Park

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posted 3 months ago

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Strict amateur in the growing arena, but I'd stick damp (pre-soaked) logs and sticks with filler for the biggest gaps - leaves, etc. preferably still green - in the bottom under your lovely soil mix. Your plants will get to benefit from the breakdown of that stuff within about a year, depending on weather/temp. Note your soil level will go down eventually, but I imagine you're mostly growing annuals so you add more compost on top to re-raise the level next time and replant.

Very cool build btw!

Eternal optimist, passionate about revitalizing the land, awake but conscious of how illusive truth really is. Much love to all!

Joshua States

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Suzie Park wrote:Strict amateur in the growing arena, but I'd stick damp (pre-soaked) logs and sticks with filler for the biggest gaps - leaves, etc. preferably still green - in the bottom under your lovely soil mix.

Very cool build btw!

That was the plan Suzie. If you scroll up a few posts you will see how I filled the beds starting with dead and rotting wood, wood chips, and other organic debris.
This morning, we topped the beds off with another 4-5 inches of local soil, sifted to get the rocks out. I watered it well and this afternoon, we will put the plants in place.
Then, I have a batch of compost ready to spread around and a nice layer of leaf and pine mulch should set it up for a good season.

Nancy Reading

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Thanks for sharing your build Joshua - it's looking great. I have polytunnel envy here, mine is still a hole in the ground!

Sounds like you've got the soil level sorted - these were my thoughts....
I don't think adding more biochar would do any harm, but probably won't be enough for what you need. is there possibilities of coffee grounds from local coffee shops? aged manure (or bunny poo is less rich), mushroom compost, leafmould, chopped wool (remember those wool pellets?) any plant nurseries nearby that might have scrap plants that you could reuse the compost from...

How Permies works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads
My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

Joshua States

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Nancy Reading wrote:Thanks for sharing your build Joshua - it's looking great. I have polytunnel envy here, mine is still a hole in the ground!

Sounds like you've got the soil level sorted - these were my thoughts....
I don't think adding more biochar would do any harm, but probably won't be enough for what you need. is there possibilities of coffee grounds from local coffee shops? aged manure (or bunny poo is less rich), mushroom compost, leafmould, chopped wool (remember those wool pellets?) any plant nurseries nearby that might have scrap plants that you could reuse the compost from...

I'm sure you will get that hole to go vertical soon!
All great ideas, but alas, I live too far off the paved road to have any convenient access to things like coffee shops and plant nurseries. I'll have to settle for some store-bought compost, manure, or potting soil.
All the locals who have animals to generate manure, use it in their own gardens.

In the meantime, we filled the beds and staged all the plant starts outside the house thngy this morning.

We transplanted everything. Some plants did not take the change really well, but here is hoping they recover after a little fish emulsion with water.

Nancy Reading

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Looks great!!!
I'm sure the plants will be happier with their roots in more soil after a few days. I hope your summer is productive

How Permies works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads
My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

Joshua States

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I got everything mulched. I lost a few plants but will try to replant some seeds as replacements.
It does get really hot in there during the day. I just purchased some small solar-power fans for ventilation and a screen door.

Jay Angler

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Joshua States wrote:It does get really hot in there during the day. I just purchased some small solar-power fans for ventilation and a screen door.

This is why having some thermal mass to absorb the daytime heat and hold onto some of it overnight is really helpful.

Visit Redhawk's soil series: https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil
How permies.com works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads

Joshua States

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Well, it seems that this thingy works pretty well. At the very least, no forest creatures have gotten in and eaten anything.
The beds are filling out and I have started some succession planting of bush beans.

The nightshades and squash are all flowering, and some have fruit on the vine.

I'm getting some of the peas, beans, and squash trained to grow up in hopes they will use the cattle panels as a trellis.

The transplanted spinach is starting to bolt, so I planted a small patch of it elsewhere, along with some patches of other leafy greens.

Joshua States

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I thought I would post a small update.
Everything seems to be happy and healthy, except for the peas, which all started dying, so I planted more, and the peppers are not growing vigorously. Everyone around here is having trouble with peppers it seems.
We have been eating fresh salad greens for a few weeks now. The arugula is very potent! We have had a couple of summer squash, zukes, and tomatoes.
The squash is trellising up the cattle panels as expected. The only real problems I am having is the root vegetables are stunted because the soil is very compacted and the lack of pollinators. Not too many bees and such around here, so I am hand pollinating the squash, melons, and eggplant with a Q-tip.
Next year I will dig up and loosen the soil. Probably add some amendments like coir or peat to keep it fluffier.
Anyway, it's a jungle in there.

Aug-1-2025-(1).JPG

Aug-1-2025-(2).JPG

Jay Angler

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Joshua States wrote:... except for the peas, which all started dying, so I planted more,

Peas generally are a spring, cool weather crop. I'm not surprised they've died back, but a friend also started a second lot, so it's worth a try as it's so easy to save pea seeds and they're good for the soil even if they don't produce a crop.

And wrote:

The arugula is very potent!

Again, in my ecosystem, it's a cool weather crop. The added heat of the greenhouse could account for the potency and so long as you don't mind the spiciness, consider it a feature rather than a bug!

And wrote:

The only real problems I am having is the root vegetables are stunted because the soil is very compacted and the lack of pollinators. Not too many bees and such around here, so I am hand pollinating the squash, melons, and eggplant with a Q-tip.
Next year I will dig up and loosen the soil. Probably add some amendments like coir or peat to keep it fluffier.

Biochar can be a great addition to both loosen soil and to help it hold nutrients. If you have access to scrap wood or a lot of branch clippings, it would be something to consider. Lot's of info on small to larger scale ways to make it over on the biochar forum.

As for the bees - is this a local issue? Do you have native bees? Is it good bee territory? In my ecosystem, bee forage is an issue. The lowly dandelion is critical to supporting pollinators, as are some of the herbs I grow and allow to bloom specifically for them. I would do some research and talk to long term neighbors. If you're in an area where certain toxic gick is used, you may have to work hard to create a haven for pollinators in the hopes they'll stay home and not roam into dangerous territory.

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Joshua States

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Location: 6a Alpine Southwest USA

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Jay Angler wrote:

Joshua States wrote:... except for the peas, which all started dying, so I planted more,

Peas generally are a spring, cool weather crop. I'm not surprised they've died back, but a friend also started a second lot, so it's worth a try as it's so easy to save pea seeds and they're good for the soil even if they don't produce a crop.

And wrote:

The arugula is very potent!

Again, in my ecosystem, it's a cool weather crop. The added heat of the greenhouse could account for the potency and so long as you don't mind the spiciness, consider it a feature rather than a bug!

And wrote:

The only real problems I am having is the root vegetables are stunted because the soil is very compacted and the lack of pollinators. Not too many bees and such around here, so I am hand pollinating the squash, melons, and eggplant with a Q-tip.
Next year I will dig up and loosen the soil. Probably add some amendments like coir or peat to keep it fluffier.

Biochar can be a great addition to both loosen soil and to help it hold nutrients. If you have access to scrap wood or a lot of branch clippings, it would be something to consider. Lot's of info on small to larger scale ways to make it over on the biochar forum.

As for the bees - is this a local issue? Do you have native bees? Is it good bee territory? In my ecosystem, bee forage is an issue. The lowly dandelion is critical to supporting pollinators, as are some of the herbs I grow and allow to bloom specifically for them. I would do some research and talk to long term neighbors. If you're in an area where certain toxic gick is used, you may have to work hard to create a haven for pollinators in the hopes they'll stay home and not roam into dangerous territory.

Jay,
Yeah, the peas didn't surprise me much. The arugula is quite tasty.

As for biochar, oh do I have biochar.....

I made a post on this thread about my biochar/charcoal making process. https://permies.com/t/155659/Idea-Making-charcoal-retort-rocket#1336500
I mixed a bunch of it into the beds' lower levels, broken into small chunks. Maybe I will mix some into the topsoil layer for next year.

The pollinator issue is a weird one. I also have noted that while the area here is usually ablaze with wildflowers this time of year, this year the bloom isn't what we normally expect. In fact, it is quite dismal.
Not a lot of honeybees around here, mostly just mason bees and they are few and far between. Lots of wasps though.
I was reading something recently that all the honeybees in North America are European imports. Very few are descended from native stock as they were not really prevalent here.
The forest around here doesn't seem to have any at all.

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