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Portuguese "sweet " oaks
David Livingston
steward
Posts: 2441
Location: Anjou ,France
74
posted 2 years ago
geoff lawton recently made mention of Oak trees from Portugal that had much less tannin than other oaks. Does anyone have any further information on this 
David
David
Living in Anjou , France
http://www.permies.com/t/80/31583/projects/Permie-Pennies-France#330873
David Livingston
steward
Posts: 2441
Location: Anjou ,France
74
posted 2 years ago
Living in Anjou , France
http://www.permies.com/t/80/31583/projects/Permie-Pennies-France#330873
Dave Wells
Posts: 2
posted 2 years ago
This will be the one
Quercus suber, commonly called the cork oak
Quercus suber, commonly called the cork oak
posted 2 years ago
No no no - the cork oak acorns taste horrid!
The sweet ones have holly-shaped leaves and I'm pretty sure they are the Quercus Ilex. I have a pack of them ready to send off to Paul but that's all I have left at the moment. I have one growing just outside the gate. I'll get some photos posted when I can if you need to identify them.
The sweet ones have holly-shaped leaves and I'm pretty sure they are the Quercus Ilex. I have a pack of them ready to send off to Paul but that's all I have left at the moment. I have one growing just outside the gate. I'll get some photos posted when I can if you need to identify them.
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posted 2 years ago
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I have one that grows just outside our gate and gives lovely big, sweet acorns.
According to wikki -
I'm guessing that I live pretty well on the border where the two species overlap, as there are a lot of oak trees around with more holly shaped leaves, but 'my' one is less holly like and has sweet acorns, which would fit with it being Quercus ilex subsp. rotundifolia. The locals call it a ballota.
I think I'm gonna have to collect a load more acorns this year...
Here's a photo, taken last April.
According to wikki -
There are two subspecies:
Quercus ilex subsp. ilex. Native in the north and east of the species' range, from northern Iberia and France east to Greece. Leaves narrow; acorns 2 cm long, bitter tasting.
Quercus ilex subsp. rotundifolia (syn. Q. rotundifolia, Q. ballota). Native in the southwest of the species' range, in central and southern Iberia (Portugal and Spain) and northwest Africa. Leaves broader; acorns 2.5 cm long, sweet tasting.
I'm guessing that I live pretty well on the border where the two species overlap, as there are a lot of oak trees around with more holly shaped leaves, but 'my' one is less holly like and has sweet acorns, which would fit with it being Quercus ilex subsp. rotundifolia. The locals call it a ballota.
I think I'm gonna have to collect a load more acorns this year...
Here's a photo, taken last April.
ballota.jpg
![[Thumbnail for ballota.jpg]](/t/34331/a/15762/ballota.jpg "Filename: ballota.jpg
Description:")
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What is a Mother Tree ?
Dave Wells
Posts: 2
posted 2 years ago
You could easily be right, Burra. I am not an expert. The birdsafe.com web site says: "Cork Oak is a safe wood to leave the bark on. Cork oak has very low levels of tannin (far lower then other oaks) and......" which suggests the acorns are relatively sweet. Also note that pigs tend to pig out on acorns and that Portuguese villages used to have the cork oak as a mainstay, one purpose being to fatten up the piggies. I will be planting some myself for that reason.
David Livingston
steward
Posts: 2441
Location: Anjou ,France
74
posted 2 years ago
Bugger I know where there are thousands of the wrong subspecies here in France I thought I had hit the jackpot .
Getting the wrong one to grow here in France is doable mmmmm grafting anyone ?
Thinking about it Paul would like to grow some, would it not be an idea to grow the northern subspecies then graft the southern one onto it I notice that his place seems a tad colder than Spain and Portugal.. A bit like folks do with citrus It might make such trees more hardy.
David
Getting the wrong one to grow here in France is doable mmmmm grafting anyone ?
Thinking about it Paul would like to grow some, would it not be an idea to grow the northern subspecies then graft the southern one onto it I notice that his place seems a tad colder than Spain and Portugal.. A bit like folks do with citrus It might make such trees more hardy.
David
Living in Anjou , France
http://www.permies.com/t/80/31583/projects/Permie-Pennies-France#330873
Darnell Brawner
Posts: 26
Location: Hilton Head Island SC
4
posted 2 years ago
Does anyone know where you can order premium oaks that produce large sweet acorns for the southeast?
posted 2 years ago
Not sure if these'll work for the southeast but it's a good source of low tannin oaks:
The Edible Acorn
The Edible Acorn
My project thread
Agriculture collects solar energy two-dimensionally; but silviculture collects it three dimensionally.
David Vidal
Posts: 19
Location: Catalonia (Europe), Zone 9
posted 2 years ago
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In Catalonia we've also got plenty of both holm (or evergreen) oak types, and also hybrids of both sub-species (since like other types of oaks, they inter-breed quite easily). Here's the leaf morphological difference between a true Quercus Ilex Ilex (left) and a true Quercus Ilex Ballota/Rotundifolia (right). As wikipedia says, just the acorns of Quercus Ilex Ballota are edible, but since holm oaks in transition areas are usually inter-bred, it's not easy to find a 100% true non-bitter acorn:
Source: http://ichn.iec.cat/bages/alzinar/fulles.htm
Source: http://ichn.iec.cat/bages/alzinar/fulles.htm
Burra Maluca wrote:I have one that grows just outside our gate and gives lovely big, sweet acorns.
According to wikki -
There are two subspecies:
Quercus ilex subsp. ilex. Native in the north and east of the species' range, from northern Iberia and France east to Greece. Leaves narrow; acorns 2 cm long, bitter tasting.
Quercus ilex subsp. rotundifolia (syn. Q. rotundifolia, Q. ballota). Native in the southwest of the species' range, in central and southern Iberia (Portugal and Spain) and northwest Africa. Leaves broader; acorns 2.5 cm long, sweet tasting.
I'm guessing that I live pretty well on the border where the two species overlap, as there are a lot of oak trees around with more holly shaped leaves, but 'my' one is less holly like and has sweet acorns, which would fit with it being Quercus ilex subsp. rotundifolia. The locals call it a ballota.
I think I'm gonna have to collect a load more acorns this year...
Here's a photo, taken last April.
posted 2 years ago
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Wow! Those look nothing like our red or white oak leaves at all!
My project thread
Agriculture collects solar energy two-dimensionally; but silviculture collects it three dimensionally.
Bruno Silva
Posts: 2
posted 1 year ago
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I have lot of those Quercus Ilex Ilex in my plot, i can send some seeds, because it´s hard tree to transplante i think, the main one is one the top of the hill and give a lot of nutrient for all the terrain.
