Bone Biochar?

I've joined a hunting group in my area and have helped with the processing of various animals.  Just the other day after cleaning up an elk I was asked to get rid of the remaining skin, carcass, and bones by dropping off in the forest somewhere.  

"Why not use it on your land?" I asked.  "Every part of the animal is useful."  

After a little bit of back and forth, the reply was basically something like this: "Don't tell anybody in our hunting group about your experimental methods.  They will look at you like you are crazy."

I was trying to offer permaculture zero waste ideas and alternatives, rather than just throwing something useful away into the forest, but apparently this kind of stuff seems crazy to some people.  Opposite sides of the eco-scale, I suppose.

So, I decided to not take the remains to the forest.  Instead the elk remains, as well as any future throw away animal parts, are ending up in a large compost pile at my place.  When time comes to harvest the compost there will likely be lots of bones to make use of.  One of my issues is acidic soil (tested at 3.6), so...Problem to Solution! Calcium phosphate?

I found this thread https://permies.com/t/216878/Bones to look for ideas, and came across this reply:

John Suavecito wrote:I dry out the bones, and then I throw them into the biochar when I burn it.  I've read that it improves the biochar somehow.
John S
PDX OR

"

Seems to me like one of the easiest solutions for my situation is to throw the bones into a kon-tiki style pit.  I will be making a huge amount of biochar soon with all the tree trimming materials ive been collecting over the last year, so might as well add the bones?

How exactly do the bones improve biochar?

If just charring the bones on their own, then is there a limit to how long and at what temperatures?  How to get the most out of them with the least amount of inputs?  

I've thrown some random post-composting bones in with the wood when making char trench-style once or twice. Since this wasn't at my own place, I don't really have any experience with actually using the char. It chars okay, though. The surface of each piece turns white, so I suppose anything non-mineral burns off there, but when you break the pieces apart they're nice and black inside. When we did it, it was mainly in order to make the bones easier to crush and incorporate into the soil, but if some of the carbon sticks around, that's a nice bonus.

As for how it helps the biochar, I suppose one thing is that it adds nutrients, mainly calcium and phosphorus but probably some nitrogen as well. Other than that, I don't know.

Arthur Wierzchos wrote:"Why not use it on your land?" I asked.  "Every part of the animal is useful."  

After a little bit of back and forth, the reply was basically something like this: "Don't tell anybody in our hunting group about your experimental methods.  They will look at you like you are crazy."

I was trying to offer permaculture zero waste ideas and alternatives, rather than just throwing something useful away into the forest, but apparently this kind of stuff seems crazy to some people.  Opposite sides of the eco-scale, I suppose. ...

So, I decided to not take the remains to the forest.  Instead the elk remains, as well as any future throw away animal parts, are ending up in a large compost

I found this thread https://permies.com/t/216878/Bones to look for ideas, and came across this reply:

John Suavecito wrote:I dry out the bones, and then I throw them into the biochar when I burn it.  I've read that it improves the biochar somehow.
John S
PDX OR

Seems to me like one of the easiest solutions for my situation is to throw the bones into a kon-tiki style pit.  I will be making a huge amount of biochar soon with all the tree trimming materials ive been collecting over the last year, so might as well add the bones?

How exactly do the bones improve biochar?

If just charring the bones on their own, then is there a limit to how long and at what temperatures?  How to get the most out of them with the least amount of inputs?  

I have read that way back when, pioneer homesteaders burned their bones so I feel you have come up with a great solution.

I know it would be good to help folks learn about permaculture I just have never found anyone open to the ideas.  They all want to take the easy way out.

I burn the bones in the woodstove, then spread on my property.

Bones in my soil take decades to break down. If I put them through a fire I can crumble them and get those nutrients available much faster. All bones and shells get the biochar treatment here.

Anne Miller wrote: I know it would be good to help folks learn about permaculture I just have never found anyone open to the ideas.  They all want to take the easy way out.

Interesting description Ann. I recognize what you are saying, but actually, I think of permaculture as the easy way out. Let nature take care of things!

When people look at me (probably) thinking I am weird because I tell them about my worm bin, I usually ask them why it makes more sense to them to collect their kitchen scraps  in a garbage bag until they really stink, have them picked up by a truck burning fossil fuel, and than burn some more fossil fuel to drive to the store to buy compost for their plants? I ask them with a smile and I am truly interested in their answer. I never receive an answer, but I hope it gets them thinking. It always has some effect, but usually most effect on bystanders that overheard it.

So Arthur, when somebody of your hunting group finds out what you ar doing in your back yard, just ask them why it makes more sense to put in extra time and effort to drag this waste into the woods? Be truly interested. I am sure if they have an answer, it can start an interesting conversation.

I agree with Eino-the benefit is mostly the minerals in the bones.  However, I started putting them in the biochar because I was afraid that if I put chicken and turkey bones directly in my soil, raccoons, rats and other creatures would be digging up my plants to get to the flavor of the bones. As it is, I have no such problems.  There were some technical reasons why the biochar was better with bones, but I don't exactly remember why.

John S
PDX OR

Nynke Muller wrote:

Anne Miller wrote: I know it would be good to help folks learn about permaculture I just have never found anyone open to the ideas.  They all want to take the easy way out.

Interesting description Ann. I recognize what you are saying, but actually, I think of permaculture as the easy way out. Let nature take care of things!

Yes, permaculture is the easy way out and folks are so busy with what ever is in their own lives to realize this.

A really good example is that my daughter has listened to me talk about permaculture since I found this forum almost ten years ago.

She does not practice permaculture and if someone mention permaculture to her, I doubt she has any idea what it is ...

Anne Miller wrote:

Yes, permaculture is the easy way out and folks are so busy with what ever is in their own lives to realize this.

A really good example is that my daughter has listened to me talk about permaculture since I found this forum almost ten years ago.

She does not practice permaculture and if someone mention permaculture to her, I doubt she has any idea what it is ...

Oh Anne, I am so sorry to hear this. If our loved ones choose a different path, it can really hurt. Please don't take that personal, and don't let it get in the way of your relationship with your daughter. Don't be surprised when somewhere in the future, the seeds you have sown while raising her, will germinate, and she will adopt some of the principles you taught her.
I think permaculture truly is the easy way out, but it is not always easy to go against whatever is mainstream and stand up for what you believe in. Give her some time!

Arthur Wierzchos wrote:
I was trying to offer permaculture zero waste ideas and alternatives, rather than just throwing something useful away into the forest, but apparently this kind of stuff seems crazy to some people.  Opposite sides of the eco-scale, I suppose.

Hi Arthur,

I would add that throwing entrails and other carcass remains from hunting into the forest isn't that wasteful, the forest has all kinds of life that will utilize it. Plants as well as animals and insects. Throwing it away in a landfill is a different story...

Biochar from bone vs something like wood is good because it has a lot of phosphorus and minerals. You can cook them in a kontiki style pit, but you loose some of those minerals to ash, which can quickly wash away if your Kontiki is in a pit and not an metal one that can capture the liquid ash. You'll get more return making bone char in a retort that is enclosed like a barrel TLUD.

Alternatively, you can make water soluble calcium phosphate by charing the bones and then mixing them with vinegar. It's a KNF recipe that works great! Here's a video you may find useful:

Imy pH was 3.5
I deep ripped with a Yeomans plough, hosed compost tea with humic and fulvic acid, seaweed and fish down the rips.
Used a disc plough to remove the bunching grass called love grass.
Broadcast a diverse seed mix 15 species inoculated with the tea and mycorrhizal fungi. Dragged a chain over the top. It rained the next day. Followed up with a compost/ worm tea as foliar.
One week later checked the pH and it was 7 😀 tested again 18 months later and pH was still 7.
Oxygen and biology 👌
No need for lime, it's a salt.
Thanks for this thread on bone char.

I just retort-biochar anything organic. Fruit rinds. Shellfish. Bones. The rest are composted. The garbage collector essentially has nothing to collect. And all these go into static-deposit-and-forget wire mesh enclosures. If any plant wants those nutrients, they can send roots out. I don't measure anything and then fret over the numbers. But then again, I don't operate a farm or food forest.

Plastics - bags, drinking straws, one-time-use-food-containers, coffee cup lids, blister packs - are all forced into plastic Ecoladrillos . . . but that is another story for a later thread/post.

Sepp Holzer makes bone sauce. I think you can find instructions in his book Sepp Holzer's Permaculture.

Or, here's a video.



Would this be a possibility?

I normally try to carefully dry out the bones I use for biochar. A few years ago, some of the bones got a lot of hairy mold on them. Just this past week, I noticed some minor mold on some of them. Once they are really dry, I throw them into a crock to store for a few months.   I don't burn any biochar now (early December), because it's the cold/wet/dark part of the year.  Too hard to get a good fire going in limited daylight when it's so wet.  Come March, I'll start burning biochar again.

John S
PDX OR