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pond in small forest garden?

 
Ronaldo Montoya
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Hi, do you think its a good idea to have a pond in a small forest garden ( 1900 square meters) ?
Which benefits can a pond can add to a forest garden?
My land is in a valley near a river and there are 2 water channels with permanent water around the land.
I think theres water in the underground of my land because my neighbours have made a hole in the soil to extract clean water from the underground....

Would you recommend to create a pond? if yes, which size of a pond can be good for this size of land ( 1900 square meters) ?


 
Dave Lodge
Posts: 93
Location: New England
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Vernal pools (pools of water that are there in the spring and dry up in the summer) are breeding ground for many amphibians in the woods. Doesn't need to be big for them to use it.

Downside of a pond in the woods might be mosquito breeding if the ecological controls are not there.
 
Earl Aarsrood
Posts: 14
Location: Wisconsin zone 3/4
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The mosquitos can be controlled using BT, but I'm not sure how permaculture friendly that is.
 
wayne fajkus
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An oil coating on the surface (orange oil?) Would keep the larvae from getting air. Minnows or goldfish would eat them. Moving water would prohibit/minimize the larvae from the get go (solar pump?)
 
Tina Paxton
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Location: coastal southeast North Carolina
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Dave Lodge wrote:Downside of a pond in the woods might be mosquito breeding if the ecological controls are not there.


Solution: DUCKS. Especially Muscovies. Ducks will aerate the water while swimming around on the pond. Muscovies will eat mosquitoes with abandon. If you also put fish in the pond, then the duck poo can feed the fish and/or pond plants. Frogs and other amphibans will also help with the mosquito/bug population....

Basically, you want an aerated/oxygenated pond ecosystem rather than a stagnate pond.
 
elle sagenev
Posts: 1261
Location: Zone 5 Wyoming
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Tina Paxton wrote:
Dave Lodge wrote:Downside of a pond in the woods might be mosquito breeding if the ecological controls are not there.


Solution: DUCKS. Especially Muscovies. Ducks will aerate the water while swimming around on the pond. Muscovies will eat mosquitoes with abandon. If you also put fish in the pond, then the duck poo can feed the fish and/or pond plants. Frogs and other amphibans will also help with the mosquito/bug population....

Basically, you want an aerated/oxygenated pond ecosystem rather than a stagnate pond.


I'm not sure on the duck thing. A small pond could not sustain many ducks for very long without some pretty amazing filtration. I currently only have 3 ducks. My pond is 30x14. It is disgusting.
 
Tina Paxton
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Danielle Venegas wrote:
I'm not sure on the duck thing. A small pond could not sustain many ducks for very long without some pretty amazing filtration. I currently only have 3 ducks. My pond is 30x14. It is disgusting.


Do you have fish in the pond? I'm not being argumentative...I'm curious because I am going to be setting up two small ponds for my ducks (one on either side of my 1/2 acre property). I know they dirty up their kiddie pools very quickly but had thought that with the development of a complete pond ecosystem to reduce that....
 
elle sagenev
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Location: Zone 5 Wyoming
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Tina Paxton wrote:
Danielle Venegas wrote:
I'm not sure on the duck thing. A small pond could not sustain many ducks for very long without some pretty amazing filtration. I currently only have 3 ducks. My pond is 30x14. It is disgusting.


Do you have fish in the pond? I'm not being argumentative...I'm curious because I am going to be setting up two small ponds for my ducks (one on either side of my 1/2 acre property). I know they dirty up their kiddie pools very quickly but had thought that with the development of a complete pond ecosystem to reduce that....


1/2 of my pond is fenced off for bio filtration. I also have 3 levels of a waterfall that have filter material in them. Yes to the fish though ducks will eat them if they can catch them. I'm down to 3 ducks, started with 8. The pond is still nasty.

I don't appear to have a great picture of the pond set up with the bio filter side. Seems I just took pics of the ducks on their side. Anyway, here is what it looks like.
happy ducks.jpg
[Thumbnail for happy ducks.jpg]
 
Ronaldo Montoya
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30 X 14 square meters?




Danielle Venegas wrote:
Tina Paxton wrote:
Dave Lodge wrote:Downside of a pond in the woods might be mosquito breeding if the ecological controls are not there.


Solution: DUCKS. Especially Muscovies. Ducks will aerate the water while swimming around on the pond. Muscovies will eat mosquitoes with abandon. If you also put fish in the pond, then the duck poo can feed the fish and/or pond plants. Frogs and other amphibans will also help with the mosquito/bug population....

Basically, you want an aerated/oxygenated pond ecosystem rather than a stagnate pond.


I'm not sure on the duck thing. A small pond could not sustain many ducks for very long without some pretty amazing filtration. I currently only have 3 ducks. My pond is 30x14. It is disgusting.
 
Ronaldo Montoya
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Its seems having a pond will bring a lot of problems and work.

I also have the problem that im not gonna live permanently in the forest so it would be low maintainance. Having ducks would mean somebody permanently in the forest taking care of the ducks.

It seems having a pond is too much work and the benefits are not so much.

Do you think having a pond in such little forest garden ( 1900 square meters) would increase the productivity of the forest? in which amount?
 
Jon La Foy
Posts: 84
Location: Kempner, TX (Central Texas)
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I think putting a small pond is beneficial. If you look at most food forests, or any major forest planted like the Yatir forest in Israel, they all have a water system of some sort. Depending on the size, the pond can provide more oppurtunities such as fish, emergency water supply, irrigation, etc. I think putting the pond IN the forest is a better idea that having no tree coverage at all. Here in central Texas a lot of people's ponds (tanks as they are called) are dried up, all the ones that are in the open. Those which have shade are protected.
Ducks may not be the best animal, but maybe introduce a smaller more manageable water fowl. A solar pump, as stated by someone else, is an excellent way to aerate the water (or ever windmill pump!). You can introduce the fish yourself and most other species will make their way to the water on their own, like frogs, garter snakes, etc. I plan on building a pond after I establish my forest garden along my dry creek bed (after I restore my creek). There are also plants that will help filter your water from toxins and chemicals that would help with the cleanliness. And there are water plants that you can use for many uses (fish food, duck food, compost). The plant I am specifically thinking of is duckweed.
Here is a link to some of those toxin filtering plants: http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/boxplot/when-plants-get-metal-part-2?src=SOC&dom=fb
Good luck!
 
elle sagenev
Posts: 1261
Location: Zone 5 Wyoming
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Feet. Total American here!
Ronaldo Montoya wrote:30 X 14 square meters?




Danielle Venegas wrote:
Tina Paxton wrote:
Dave Lodge wrote:Downside of a pond in the woods might be mosquito breeding if the ecological controls are not there.


Solution: DUCKS. Especially Muscovies. Ducks will aerate the water while swimming around on the pond. Muscovies will eat mosquitoes with abandon. If you also put fish in the pond, then the duck poo can feed the fish and/or pond plants. Frogs and other amphibans will also help with the mosquito/bug population....

Basically, you want an aerated/oxygenated pond ecosystem rather than a stagnate pond.


I'm not sure on the duck thing. A small pond could not sustain many ducks for very long without some pretty amazing filtration. I currently only have 3 ducks. My pond is 30x14. It is disgusting.
 
elle sagenev
Posts: 1261
Location: Zone 5 Wyoming
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Ronaldo Montoya wrote:Its seems having a pond will bring a lot of problems and work.

I also have the problem that im not gonna live permanently in the forest so it would be low maintainance. Having ducks would mean somebody permanently in the forest taking care of the ducks.

It seems having a pond is too much work and the benefits are not so much.

Do you think having a pond in such little forest garden ( 1900 square meters) would increase the productivity of the forest? in which amount?


I think having a water feature of some sort is beneficial. I know because as soon as I fill up my kids pool I'm fishing bees, butterflies, etc out of it. So a small fountain where beneficial bugs could drink would be good.
 
Peter Ellis
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Location: Central New Jersey
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If I understand correctly you have two streams that run through your land all year long? In that case, I would not think that a pond would be worth the effort. If you did not have water on the land then the pond would probably be worth the effort.

Having a water feature - pond, lake, stream, river - has many benefits. If I understand correctly, you have two on the land now. Another would likely not make much difference.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://richsoil.com/email
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