Propagating Blood (cling) Peaches

David Reason wrote:Curious if anyone knows if peaches breed-true or if there is a genetic variation between parent and offspring like in apples, requiring a graft. do you have to maintain a mother the graft her to the rootstock to maintain her expressions?

They seem to breed true to type for me. I have mostly this one variety...the only variation I see is in the flesh color...on some trees the fruit have more white than beet red streaks and maybe a slight flavor difference that I can't describe.
I was interested in my younger unpruned ones that had larger fruit but that may have been because there were just fewer peaches on the trees...but I planted this years seed separately anyway...maybe I can track them for three years. I did have a young white peach produce a few this year...beautiful and tasty just like the original.
...I am not online at home so didn't answer your post right away.
I am experimenting with unpruned peach trees for all of my new trees...some three year olds are shooting straight up to twelve feet already. I will see if I can post pictures.

most all stone fruits, with pits, come true from seed, except theres a few weird cultivars, and sometimes cherries are weird. but they just resort back to wild cherry characteristics, which isnt so bad =) imho.

but the others, like apricots, plums and peaches come true to type most of the time...at least very close to the parent.

ok gonna post some more pics judith sent me =)

The first is an unpruned three to four year old started from seed and the second is a pruned twelve year old that I started from seed but it spent some time in a pot. I am not watering the unpruned ones...am hoping the roots are going as deep as the top but am not sure peaches do that.

well they look pretty happy without being watered so you must be doing something right =)


and youre welcome, and THANKS for the blood peach seeds, again. i have them in pots now...probably not come up till next spring but i am psyched to get these going.

Thanks so much for the tips on Indian Blood peaches, Judith! I guess you're out of seeds for this year, but perhaps we could ask you for a few next season. My wife Lisa and I actually planted a few IB pits at our place in far N. Calif. last year, and three sprouted and grew well; but now we've moved to Lisa's family land in Suches, GA (like you, we're in Zone 7 here, at 2700'). Hope to get in touch.

Charley Sweet wrote:Thanks so much for the tips on Indian Blood peaches, Judith! I guess you're out of seeds for this year, but perhaps we could ask you for a few next season. My wife Lisa and I actually planted a few IB pits at our place in far N. Calif. last year, and three sprouted and grew well; but now we've moved to Lisa's family land in Suches, GA (like you, we're in Zone 7 here, at 2700'). Hope to get in touch.

I'll post here when it looks like there will be a crop for next year and I have put you on our list. Crazy weather here...anything could happen, I guess. We are eating this peach dried this winter...a very distinct flavor.
good to hear from you and welcome to permies!

gonna try to post a picture...

...and another

David Reason wrote:Curious if anyone knows if peaches breed-true or if there is a genetic variation between parent and offspring like in apples, requiring a graft. do you have to maintain a mother the graft her to the rootstock to maintain her expressions?

Previously I had found an on-line reference that documented what fruit will breed true and which won't. Unfortunately I can't document it, but that site mentioned Indian Blood peach specifically and also Elberta. It said that Elberta breeds about 90% true. That means if you planted 10 Elberta pits, 9 of them would bear fruit just like Elberta.

The difference is that Elberta, and others are self-fertile, and hence much much less diverse than the apples are. It went on to mention that sweet cherries also mostly come true to type as do Japanese plums. Satsuma is an example of a Japanese plum that breeds close to type.

I've planted both Elberta and Indian Blood peach in my orchard, though I haven't gotten any fruit for seedstock yet. I have though had excellent results cracking peach pits to get the kernels out. I use an adjustable vise grip, which I incrementally tighten to just crack open the pit. I then plant the kernels immediately, without them drying out. Have gotten near 100% germination that way. Maybe the key is to vise them only enough to crack the pit. More than that crushes the delicate kernel.

I've used peach kernels, and also almonds as my grafting stock. What I like to do is graft multiple varieties onto diffferent branches, but to leave one branch as wildtype. Then it could at least act as a pollunator, but when I get lucky an new variety that I myself have discovered.

Michael Qulek wrote:

I've planted both Elberta and Indian Blood peach in my orchard, though I haven't gotten any fruit for seedstock yet. I have though had excellent results cracking peach pits to get the kernels out. I use an adjustable vise grip, which I incrementally tighten to just crack open the pit. I then plant the kernels immediately, without them drying out. Have gotten near 100% germination that way. Maybe the key is to vise them only enough to crack the pit. More than that crushes the delicate kernel.

Michael, I wondered if when you plant the kernel you leave it in a pot outdoors for the winter? I tried that with maybe a third of my pits one year after reading about that method in Mother Earth News. All of the kernels rotted but most of the whole pits sprouted...I planted right after harvest and left in pots outdoors until the next spring. Might try planting just the kernels again with more information. Thanks.

Judith - I just ordered some seeds for Iowa-Indian White Freestone Peach. If I can get them to sprout, maybe we could trade...a few of your cling stone variety for this freestone variety.

Jen Shrock wrote:Judith - I just ordered some seeds for Iowa-Indian White Freestone Peach. If I can get them to sprout, maybe we could trade...a few of your cling stone variety for this freestone variety.

Sounds great...I will post here when know I will have peach pits to share...probably july.

Last year there was a bumper crop of peaches here. I saved a bunch of seeds and I'm stratifying them outside now in trays. But I have some Indian Blood Free seeds left over that I have not planted yet. They are clean and dry, so they'll probably require a few months of stratification before germination. If anyone is interested (U.S. only please), I will send out a small package of seeds for free by snail mail, just moosesage me. Both of my Indian Blood Free trees were started from seed, and they do really well here in Oregon. They are awesome!!

I'm looking for seeds of any other peach leaf curl resistant variety of peach and also the seeds from pluots or apricots. I'm especially interested in Chinese Sweet Pit/Mormon and Hunza apricots.

M.K. Dorje Jr. wrote:Last year there was a bumper crop of peaches here. I saved a bunch of seeds and I'm stratifying them outside now in trays. But I have some Indian Blood Free seeds left over that I have not planted yet. They are clean and dry, so they'll probably require a few months of stratification before germination. If anyone is interested (U.S. only please), I will send out a small package of seeds for free by snail mail, just moosesage me. Both of my Indian Blood Free trees were started from seed, and they do really well here in Oregon. They are awesome!!

I'm looking for seeds of any other peach leaf curl resistant variety of peach and also the seeds from pluots or apricots. I'm especially interested in Chinese Sweet Pit/Mormon and Hunza apricots.

hi, m.k. i am interested in some of your indian blood freestones and will send a PM...Do you have good luck planting the dried pit? I thought they had to be planted while still fresh...if not that makes things so much easier and I wonder if you crack and plant just the kernel as described above in Michael Q's post?
thanks!

Judith, I'll try to get those seeds out to you by early next week. I'm pretty sure all of my peaches from seed were started from dried pits. I just put the pits in plastic 6 packs with potting soil and put them on trays outside in the rain on a table in November or December for natural stratification. They germinate (sometimes) in late spring or early summer when it warms up. I also put a tight-fitting piece of hardware cloth (wire mesh) over the top so rodents and birds can't get in. Sometimes I also soak the seeds in heavily chlorinated water before planting to get rid of mold spores. Diluted hydrogen peroxide solution would probably work, too. I don't crack the pits, either. Typically, pros will stratify dried seed of trees in moist sand or peat in a 40 degree fridge for 2-3 months. I don't like the fridge method, cause the seed trays tend to dry out or get too moldy. I also bring the outdoor trays inside to an unheated room when temperatures outside go below 20 F. degrees and threaten to freeze the ground solid for a while. Maybe somebody in your area or the extension service can give you specific advice about stratification techniques for your climate. Good luck!

Thanks...I think I follow the same procedure except I put the pit in a pot or just in the ground outdoors right after eating the peach and have had pretty good germination... when I shipped them to folks I packed the scraped and washed pits in damp peat...being able to save them dry would make for much less hurry during peach harvest. I am anxious to see how my germination is this year after much more snow and ice and cold than normal.
I just pruned my two trees that I began pruning 10-12 years ago...I have to admit I enjoy pruning, I find it relaxing...but all of my more recent plantings are going unpruned...except for what the deer is doing....not very skillfully.

If you get a chance share some pictures of your indian blood peaches here.

most all fruit seeds germinate much better if you get them directly from the fruit and never dry them out. especially citrus, which cant be totally dried out at all.

but you can still dry them to ship and have them stay viable but they go into a deeper dormancy, it takes longer to get them to sprout and you get less percentage to sprout. every month that you store them dry the less and less percentage of viable ones there will be.

theres also degrees of dryness, something can seem totally dry to us and still have some small amount of moisture, enough to keep it viable. so you can mostly dry them, quick dry them by a wood stove...and there will still be enough moisture for them to stay viable.

so it is possible to mostly dry them out to ship and store, and they will good for a year or so...but then you may only get half to sprout instead of fresh ones where 9 out of ten will sprout.
i have done this anyway, mostly dried out plum seeds and got them to sprout later.

this isnt like veggies, grain, beans and herb seeds, you can dry those out and store them for ten years or more and they will still be good. fruit tree seeds dont stay viable for very long out side the fruit.

lately i have been thinking about the funks that rot food and the possible positive effects this can have on seed germination. even though people strive for the opposite, nice clean sterilized conditions to get the seeds to be without funkiness, i think theres some potential benefits for certain kinds of seeds. or rather its just that this is the way nature does it, so theres got to be some good sense about it....the fruit falls on the ground and the rotting fruit and sugars and all that has got to have some interesting and beneficial relationship to seed germination.

tomatoes are the obvious example where people have figured out that fermenting the seed works best. i ve been thinking this may be part of the trick with berries in particular, which i have found all very difficult to germinate. maybe some purposeful funkiness/rot/mold/fermentation could make berry seeds sprout well.

and futhermore all fruit, cause the way the tree makes the seed/fruit its surrounded by sugars and things that will rot....

but obviously for trading and shipping to people...well this logic wouldnt be the way to go

Here are some pictures of my unpruned and pruned blood peach trees. The pruned one is more than 12 years old, I started from seed and pruned once a year since birth. It is one of two that we have been harvesting great crops from for several years.
The unpruned one is going on four years, also started from seed (from one of the pruned ones) and has never been pruned (except for deer nibbles) and is ten feet tall now. It is one of two the same age and height that I am leaving unpruned.
Both of the unpruned ones bloomed well last year and bore some fruit. It was interesting to me that the peaches on those were nestled very close to the upright heavier branches. The peaches on the unpruned ones were also larger but that could have been due to less fruit on the tree.
I am looking forward to this years production as a comparison. The buds are showing pink on all of the trees...too early I think with the cold weather we are due to get yet.

I am noticing a lack of gemination in my blood peach pits that I planted from the earliest of last summer's peaches. The sampling of pits that I have opened have a solid pit, but no sign of a sprout as in the picture below... they have been outside in pots all winter.
Iam posting some pictures...My later (last off the tree) blood pits are up, those I just poked in the ground everywhere, and the end of the season white peach pits are up. So, I am worried about all of the pits that I sent out...are they germinating?
I've always had good results as you can see in the picture of two year old whips...almost every pit came up.

The two variables, that I can think of, would be planting in pots or the ground and early and late pick off of the tree. perplexed

Judith Browning wrote:I am noticing a lack of gemination in my blood peach pits that I planted from the earliest of last summer's peaches. The sampling of pits that I have opened have a solid pit, but no sign of a sprout as in the picture below... they have been outside in pots all winter.
Iam posting some pictures...My later (last off the tree) blood pits are up, those I just poked in the ground everywhere, and the end of the season white peach pits are up. So, I am worried about all of the pits that I sent out...are they germinating?
I've always had good results as you can see in the picture of two year old whips...almost every pit came up.

The two variables, that I can think of, would be planting in pots or the ground and early and late pick off of the tree. perplexed

i planted the blood peach pits you sent right away outside in large pots. havent had any come up yet, but i am still hopeful.
it is still early, i planted a lot of fruit seeds in pots and in the ground directly last fall/early winter, and they are just popping up now. apples and plums started coming up a few weeks ago, and just the other day i found two peach seeds that i got from a different source had come up. i planted two other kinds of peaches and they havent sprouted yet either. so anyday now maybe the blood peaches will come up. i am guessing they come up later and need more warmth before they sprout. i will let you know.

thanks again anyway for the effort, and generously sharing =)

I planted 36 Indian Blood Free peach pits on November 24th, 2013 in 6 pack trays. I also planted a six pack each of Mary Jane peach and of a pluot variety. These seeds got the outdoor stratification treatment that I use, except I did bring the tray inside for a week during a deep freeze we had in December. A few days ago, two of the Indian Blood Free seeds germinated and are now growing quickly, but nothing else from the others yet. I'm hoping more will germinate, so I can give more peach trees away or use them for rootstocks.

good news, saw the first blood peach sprout just peek its head above the soil this morning =)

so hopefully a few more will sprout now.

after posting here last and thinking about it, i decided to check on them and found them whole in the pots. decided to crack the shells with a nutcracker and managed to eventually get them all cracked without damaging any, although one flew off into the bushes (good luck little blood peach pit! at least it jumped to a spot by a greywater line outlet and extra damp).

seems a little late but right now everything i was starting to give up finally sprouted =)

leila hamaya wrote:good news, saw the first blood peach sprout just peek its head above the soil this morning =)

so hopefully a few more will sprout now.

after posting here last and thinking about it, i decided to check on them and found them whole in the pots. decided to crack the shells with a nutcracker and managed to eventually get them all cracked without damaging any, although one flew off into the bushes (good luck little blood peach pit! at least it jumped to a spot by a greywater line outlet and extra damp).

seems a little late but right now everything i was starting to give up finally sprouted =)

That is a relief...........I have given up on mine, the ones in pots anyway. usually I have sprouted a pretty good percentage of pits by now. I am finding some of the later ones I poked in the ground are up 8-10 inches so I don't really expect much from the potted seeds.
I had so many pits that I did what you mention every once in a while all spring to check on progress...they still had a large percentage of solid kernels....nothing sprouting though....and I have never had to bust them open before to get good germination.

The four oldest fruiting trees look great although the fruit set if very small this year....late cold got some and I think the trees probably need a rest after last years bumper crop.
I probably won't have enough pits to share this year and am rethinking that anyway...I am uncomfortable with bad germination even when they are for free...................thanks for letting me know.

i'm guessing at least a few more will sprout.
but for now this one is looking good, its actually grown a bit just since yesterday when it broke through the soil.

i think its possible for me it was that i have been extra heavy with the water lately, since i was on the verge of giving up on these late bloomers. now the persimmons and hazel nuts and all rest i was about to give up on sprouted with the weeks of extra watering.

all the pits looked good when i cracked open the shells. but yeah i never expect a high germination rate with any kind of tree seed. their seems to be more duds with tree seeds than others, so i think thats just the way it is with trees, especially fruit trees. or at least thats my experience, i dont baby them too much ....and 2 or 3 sprouts out of ten seeds seems to be common.

Does anyone have extra Blood Cling/Cherokee Peach tree seeds?
I only need a few seeds.

Ken Brown

Ken, if you live within the United States I might be able to send you some Indian Blood Free peach seeds. Check your moosesages.

It looks like a good year for peaches I didn't *knock* for curculio though like I usually do so they may be wormier than usual. They had a good fruit set without getting caught in a frost......Eventually on a dry day, I'll go through and thin out the smallest and mummies, but for now I'll let them self thin and try to keep up with the drops.

I thought it might be interesting to post some pictures of one of my older pruned trees to compare with a four year old (grown from my seed) unpruned tree. They look about the same in fruit set...the unpruned might have even more fruit and less to be culled.
Not sure how I'm gonna reach peaches fifteen feet in the air though I'll give the step ladder a try...or I think by the time they are fully ripe the branches might bend down enough, or break off completely
One, maybe more major difference, is that the unpruned peach gets the benefit of our kitchen sink drain during the dry spell. The pruned one gets a bit of extra watering to get through the dry summer, but not nearly as much as the kitchen sink irrigated one.
I didn't think peaches were deeply rooted but I am wondering how deep the roots are on my unpruned one.....a mirror image of the top???

Just going by the pictures indian bloods look a good half to a third larger than the best fruit I've gotten or been given from blackboys.

Roger Taylor wrote:Just going by the pictures indian bloods look a good half to a third larger than the best fruit I've gotten or been given from blackboys.

They do make nice sized fruit if the rains come at the right time (or if I give in and water them). These seem earlier than last year, they usually ripen anywhere from late july to late august.

Hi Judith, I am in the UK but would be interested in a couple of pits if you have some this summer? Happy to pay shipping ahead. I only have a relatively small garden and your blood cling peach looks the perfect size, most other things I have to grow on dwarfing rootstocks.

Rowan Godfrey wrote:Hi Judith, I am in the UK but would be interested in a couple of pits if you have some this summer? Happy to pay shipping ahead. I only have a relatively small garden and your blood cling peach looks the perfect size, most other things I have to grow on dwarfing rootstocks.

I think peaches can always be pruned to a small size and don't need rootstock...You can plant any peach pit and get a true to type tree usually. The advantage to the blood peaches is they are somewhat resistant to leaf curl, brown rot and some of the other challenges to growing good peaches organically. They still need monitoring for curculio and this year some of mine (younger trees and in a shadier spot) have some sort of gall looking thing on some of the leaves.

I'll post here if I have seeds to share this year......I hesitate to do it again because the one time I did the seeds did not have a good germination rate. Usually they almost all sprout here......I have peaches everywhere and many small trees to give away other years.

Hi Judith, I am very interested in propagating your peach trees in our orchard here in NE Texas. Any chance I could get some pits? Thanks!

Kent Ormsby wrote:Hi Judith, I am very interested in propagating your peach trees in our orchard here in NE Texas. Any chance I could get some pits? Thanks!

I'll post in this thread if I have any....I can't tell yet, so far there is still a nice amount on the trees, but I didn't shake for curculio this year nor do any of my usual maintenance and if it stays humid brown rot is still a concern even for this variety..........we'll just have to see towards the end of July probably and maybe on into August before I'll know. ....if I do you can send me your address then and reimburse for shipping after I send them to you.

...so far so good...this is the unpruned tree that is probably fifteen to twenty feet tall.........if we keep getting rain and some good hot sunny dry days in between, I think I won't have any brown rot and might get a good crop. I expect a good percentage will have curculio though and am not sure if that will effect the seed germination or not.

...and I don't have any idea how I'm picking peaches off of that unpruned tree....I'm not sure I can get a ladder in under it...maybe shake and have my husband catch them

I'm interested in some pits to plant. Sent you a message.

I won't have any pits to share this year....so far we have a disappointing harvest. With so much rain and humidity there is more brown rot and because I didn't tend to the curculio early in the season they are in almost every peach. I'm experimenting with letting the critters (I think squirrel and mice) decide which are the good ones and am collecting those cleaned up pits from under the tree to plant......

Thank you. Maybe next year!

Back before the big trend of dwarfed fruit trees, they had contrivances to pick fruit from the taller branches.

Imagine a 6 or 7 inch loop of heavy wire on a long wooden pole/handle. Attached to the loop is a fabric or plastic bag that holds 3-5 apples or peaches.

You put the loop over the peach and jerk a little bit, and it falls (6") into the little basket.

Those look like interesting peaches. How cold-tolerant are they? I'm in Montana, we get to around -20F most years. Apricots will grow here, tho, and wild plums are like weeds, they're everywhere. Anyway if you're still sending out pits I'd like to try some! Thanks!