George Alchemy wrote:
paul wheaton wrote:
In 2005 I visited gobs of official IC's, poured through ic.org and other web sites, read Diana Leafe Christian's book and took two IC workshops (one from Diana and one from Robena McCurdy). I interviewed dozens of people that were currently living in community with a strong focus on those that were leaving community.
My analysis is two basic parts:
1) Nearly everybody is sure that they can get consensus to work, but the downsides of consensus often turns out to be bigger than the upsides of community living. But the advocates of consensus appear to be in a perpetual state of tweaking their system to mitigate these downsides (and, despite incredible pain from their systems, insist that it WILL work!). I suspect that there are examples of systems that work, but I also suspect that those systems are pretty fragile. Generally, a high rate of rejecting the founder.
well, we are not a farm, but we are an IC and have been using a type of consensus decision making that has been working for us for almost 43 years now - its called "the one no vote "http://www.lafayettemorehouse.com/one_no-vote.html - and its goal is not about voting but about communicating and reaching agreement through communication. As far as I know we haven't tinkered with it since the beginning - its one of the fundamental principles of our group.
As everyone knows, the big downside of living with people is the people. Of course the big upside of living with people is .... the people.
paul wheaton wrote:
I'm currently working for a fiefdom that doesn't work quite so well. The boss and his son are both assholes who spend most of their time going around and barking orders. The workers work 7 days a week 7:30-5:30. They hate the boss and his son. All autonomy is squelched, even though the workers are well-rounded and experienced. Well...I could go on. Suffice it to say it sucks if the boss doesn't even care to create something where people might want to stick around.
This is the part that I wanna talk about. 70 hours a week. And what do you get for that?
I think the important part is that when you have a community you lay it down as a collection of choices. The tiny room is $300 per month. The big room is $500 per month. The suite/cabin is $900 per month. If you share a big room with two others, then it is $250 per month each. Then there is compensation for your hours. If you don't feel like doing the hours, that's fine. As long as you pay your rent. If the rent seems too high, move out. If the pay for the work seems too low, get a different job. If the work you do is lame, then that work is given to somebody else.
An asshole is somebody who has a value set that is different from yours. I have worked for a lot of different assholes over the years - and I know that there were some people that thought those assholes were not assholes, but really cool people. I've also worked for some people that were awesome and other people thought they were assholes. And there were lots of times when I was the guy in charge, and some people thought I was an asshole while at the same time other people thought I was cool.
paul wheaton wrote:It is a good thing there are millions of other places to go work. Thus being able to find a position where things are smoother.
Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:
Social capital is decimated any time you move more than a small distance from where you are.
I remember you, Paul, saying you don't like to travel, I think you might have a gut feeling about the value of staying put in that.