• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • paul wheaton
  • Mike Jay
  • Anne Miller
  • Jocelyn Campbell
stewards:
  • Devaka Cooray
  • Joseph Lofthouse
  • Burra Maluca
garden masters:
  • Dave Burton
  • Pearl Sutton
gardeners:
  • James Freyr
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Daron Williams

How to kill siberian elm and "tree of heaven?"  RSS feed

 
Posts: 493
13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Tree of heaven

The crushed leaves and flowers are insect-repellent
[14]Holtom. J. and Hylton. W. Complete Guide to Herbs.
A good herbal.

An aqueous extract of the leaves contains a substance that is toxic to other tree seedlings
[240]Chopra. R. N., Nayar. S. L. and Chopra. I. C. Glossary of Indian Medicinal Plants (Including the Supplement).

Trees coppice readily
[200]Huxley. A. The New RHS Dictionary of Gardening. 1992.

As Marsha Richardson wrote: the tree can be used with edible fungus.
If you take measure to deal with skin reactions to the sap you are talking a great chop and drop plant.
Think of it as a natural herbicide. You drop and drag to the area you want cleared. Once the leaves die off the branches you take the branches and use for fire wood or mushroom production.

Many people talk of goats being used to control this tree. However, I think you need to investigate this tree working for goats. For you see in wet areas we can have issues with parasite load. When you look at the tannin and other compound in this plant you see potential for parasite control. It will likely that folder areas can be established that can be used by goats during the high parasite load periods in summer.
 
pollinator
Posts: 1126
Location: Massachusetts, 6b, urban, nearish coast, 39'x60' minus the house, mostly shady north side, + lead.
58
kids trees urban
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Brilliant.

I also thought of something, maybe too farfetched, but what if you graft walnut to Tree of Heaven? (chemical similarity, rather than species, seems to be the determinant of grafting potential--apple to pear, pear to apple, pear to linden).

Or, if that graft doesn't take, second choice, you take an area that's been overgrown with Tree of Heaven and grow walnuts there, since the chemical they use to kill other plants is the same and so the walnut is immune to it. Anyone know if this is true? I'll try to google.
 
Joshua Myrvaagnes
pollinator
Posts: 1126
Location: Massachusetts, 6b, urban, nearish coast, 39'x60' minus the house, mostly shady north side, + lead.
58
kids trees urban
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
walnut: juglone
Tree of Heaven: ailanthone

links that discussed the chemical compositions of these were broken.

Also, another source saying Tree of Heaven (I think it was the ailanthone) is anti-malarial
 
Joshua Myrvaagnes
pollinator
Posts: 1126
Location: Massachusetts, 6b, urban, nearish coast, 39'x60' minus the house, mostly shady north side, + lead.
58
kids trees urban
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ailanthone;
Ailantone:
CHEBI:2522; (1|A,11|A,12|A)-1,11,12-trihydroxy-11,20-epoxypicrasa-3,13(21)-diene-2,16-dione; 2H-1,11c-(Epoxymethano)phenanthro(10,1-bc)pyran-5,10(3H,6ah)-dione, 1,3a,4,7,7a,11,11a,11b-octahydro-8,11a-beta-dimethyl-3-methylene-1-alpha,2-beta,11-beta-trihydroxy-; Picrasa-3,13(21)-diene-2,16-dione, 11,20-epoxy-1,11,12-trihydroxy-, (1-beta,11-beta,12-alpha)-
Molecular Formula: C20H24O7

Juglone:
Juglone; 5-Hydroxy-1,4-naphthoquinone; 481-39-0; 5-Hydroxy-1,4-naphthalenedione; Regianin; Juglon More...
Molecular Formula: C10H6O3

So they're both hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon, but different proportions so probably my idea wouldn't work. Curses, foiled again.

But on the other hand, maybe juglone kills Tree of Heaven?? Anone want to have a tree-off?
--
I don't mean to hate on this tree, it has its own beauty, I'm just having trouble with it. The smell. Yech.

My housemate's family is from China, he said where his ancestors come from the tree never grows very large because people harvest it for firewood so quickly. Humans are the only known predator of Tree of Heaven.

What do I like about ToH? it can be used for mushrooms. I'm in awe of ToH's speedy deep tap-rooting ability! It's biomass, even if it is...complicated. It's got a pretty name. It can survive a nuclear blast, that's got to come in handy. It shows other trees what can be done with determination and very compacted soil.
 
Posts: 99
Location: zone 6a, north america
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
also have a love/hate relationship with the ToH.
about to take several females down before their seeds mature.
going to do the oyster mushroom pile thingy with most of the slash.
have had issues with using for firewood as it's so difficult to dry without fungi taking over in our humid climate, but just built a wood kiln so will try again.

would be an interesting experiment to try grafting.
maybe staghorn sumac would work (since they're in the same family)?

i buried some in some hugel mounds this season and saw absolutely no alleopathic effects.
in fact, the mounds produced some enormous plants with very little supplemental watering.
the wood i used laid on the ground for 6 months and was well rotted by that time.
 
Joshua Myrvaagnes
pollinator
Posts: 1126
Location: Massachusetts, 6b, urban, nearish coast, 39'x60' minus the house, mostly shady north side, + lead.
58
kids trees urban
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Intersting.

From what I read they're the same order but not same family (wikipedia).

Sumac-aid is pretty tasty. That's how I got into this whole topic in the first place.

There's got to be a way to burn wetter wood. Isn't that part of the deal with Rocket Mass Heaters burning really hot?
 
Posts: 724
Location: In a rain shadow - Fremont County, Southern CO
20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
i have a few siberian elms that are growing right along the foundation of our barn.
i need to go back and read this thread because as much as i love trees, these ones cant stay.
 
Posts: 13
Location: Long Island
1
forest garden fungi trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Joshua,

Juglone does not kill or harm tree-of-heaven (at least in my area it doesn't). I have regularly seen them growing side by side I am unsure if ailathone effects black walnut seedlings, germination, etc, but as far as I know, the only north American tree that isn't effected by ailathone is white ash (Fraxinus americana).

 
Posts: 71
Location: Italy
forest garden trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One way to kill a plant is to use boiling water over the bark, the water will be absorbed by the soil and will kill the roots and so the entire plant. The amount of water depends on the size of the plant..
 
Bras cause cancer. And tiny ads:
100 Chestnut Trees for 299$ or 50 for 195$ + Free Shipping & more
https://permies.com/t/107180/Chestnut-Trees-Free-Shipping-Interwoven
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!