husky/german shepherd for guarding the farm?

I would love some advice, I am looking at getting a year old Alaskan Husky/German Shepherd mix, to be the farm dog. What I need in a dog is the guarding and hunting instinct (to kill and eat the racoons and mink inherent in the PNW) with the intelligence to not eat my chickens and ducks (and the barn cats). I really don't want to make a mistake about this. Oh and also this dog has been cooped up in an apartment it's whole life (12 months old) and only gets an hour of exercise a day, in his picture he looks stressed. Is he too old? I don't like the husky part, but I do like the German Shepherd part. Would he be too bonded to his current owner? I can't afford a pet I need a worker.

After reading through some of the threads I am leaning away from getting this dog...

so what should I look for? A welsh terrier? a puppy or older dog? akbash/Pyrenees ah! help!

Betty,

I'm curious what don't you like about the husky part? I mean sure they super proud and can be pig stubborn, but I have found them to be fiercely loyal to their pack and great watchmen with thundering barks. It's the shepherd part I'd worry about. The line between herd and hunt can be a close thing in some of them.

I have a husky/shepherd mix and free range poultry. He's great about 95 percent of the time. But occasionally, and generally at the worst possible moments, like when the poultry are running scared and he decides to give chase. Then it turns into a cluster of no damn good. The husky part of him is great though! super smart and loyal. I've had him gently pin chicks with his paws when he knows I'm trying to get a hold of them. It's when that predator/prey chase thing goes.

All dogs are individuals and as such complicated. It's hard to tell. If your not stoked on the idea pass. There are way lots dogs out there.

Pyrenees can be great. Like huskies, german shepherds, and many other large breed dogs they can be gentle and sweet as lambs to their families and flocks but,

THEY WILL ALSO FUCKING EAT PEOPLE>

It's not a choice to be made lightly that's what I'm getting at. I often see much more variability in dog by individual and owner than I do by breed. I've had lots of dogs try to eat me. I can usually roll will it but having a stranger savaged by a Pyrenees is totally not unheard of even in just my own limited personal experience. Same for all the other dogs I've mentioned from shepherd nips to pit bull hand shakes.

I have a husky/shepherd/other stuff mutt who could do what you want. However, he's frankly, not very typical. (Which is why I adopted him. First foster failure in 15 years of husky rescue. I also have purebred huskies and I love them dearly, but they're not allowed around poultry that I don't plan on eating...) He also fetches and loves to swim.

I actually honestly think he's too YOUNG. Teenaged huskies are kind of evil, and while he might end up being the dog you need with a lot of work (because honestly, this mix can be fantastic), right now, he's just plain not what you need (could potentially, maybe, be trained for it- but that takes time and a fair amount of practicing and management in the mean time that I don't think is what you are looking for just based on your post.) One thing that's tricky is that shepherds can be SO variable- there is a BIG difference between say, eastern European working lines (very civil, lots and LOTS of defense drive, moderate to even low prey drive) to super prey monster western European sport lines to low drive American-bred pet lines.

Hell no on the Welsh Terrier. If you need the dog to be working and working NOW, I'd look for an adult LGD who is already guarding poultry. Look for a dog past the teenaged phase (2 is great, 3 is perfect, don't rule out a 5-7 year old that's in good health and being rehomed because of a family change (ie, sold the farm/getting out of livestock), if that dog is up and working they can train their successor in a year or two and you'll be set.

Hi Landon and Hunter, your replies were awesome! you asked why I didn't like the husky part, my thinking was; Huskies are sledding dogs bred to run long distances with no homing instinct and that would be bad, especially because all my neighbors are farmers. It would be bad if he dug out of the yard and took off then ate someone and their chickens. My neighbors would hate me.

I'm still thinking that I'll meet the dog and see what he's like in "person" if he humps my leg or tries to eat me then no bloody way.

About his age, C. Hunter mentioned him being too young? isn't younger better for training? Really though, I would rather have a trained LGD. Will a LGD kill a raccoon or a mink or just really intimidate it? It would be illegal for me to kill a raccoon or mink (here in Canaduh) because they are "fur bearing" and believe me pellet guns only go so far... I know some people who trap them and then they meet with an unfortunate drowning accident. But I don't have the stomach for that, I'd rather see a dog tear a raccoon to pieces.

Someone recommended a Jack Russell to kill the racoons... this link is actually a compelling argument for a Jack Russell...

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/247048/jack-russell-terrier-vs-coon-fight-photos-dead-predator

but yeah, I don't like terriers...

Hard decision, I just want the right dog.

this happy face means that anything that offended anyone in this post was a joke.

Young helps for some things. If you're a training geek, you can really do a LOT of molding of behavior by starting with a young dog. But 'preventing bad habits' in a young dog just means overall that you are going to have to spend a lot of time supervising the dog to make sure they never get the opportunity to START those bad habits or that you curb a bad behavior on the first or second time the dog tries it, rather than after he's been doing it for a long time. MOst people are not all that great at that level of management/supervision, which is why so many dogs get given up after developing those behaviors. (And it's not that most of those behaviors aren't fixable to some degree, it's just faster to prevent 'em in the first place IF you can manage that type of supervision.) If you are NOT sure you can do that kind of supervision, your choices are get a puppy and hope you got one that never gets into trouble (and there are some) or never develops any habits that you can't live with (there's a chance of that, anyway, sometimes you get lucky) or, better bet, get an adult who demonstrably doesn't have those habits. There are definitely dogs who ended up in the pound for various behavioral problems, but some of those problems may work to your advantage (see: crazy ball driven dogs with a good nose can make GREAT detection dogs for law enforcement, a dog who is very territorial and suspicious of strangers might be a nightmare for a family with 4 kids in a townhome that constantly has folks coming and going but could be a great match for someone in a rural area (or a bad neighborhood) who would regard barking at strangers to be a positive trait. And frankly, there's an awful lot of dogs that end up in shelters for no real reason at all- they're just strays, or people were dumb and irresponsible and got a dog without thinking about it and the dog is now inconvenient with a lack of manners but no outright problem behaviors.

If you are NOT a training geek (and even if you are, to some extent), teenaged dogs are hard to evaluate. It can be difficult to tell "This is an obnoxious behavior due to underexercise and lack of manners training" from "This is something instinctual that I won't be able to fix" and an older dog will be a lot more settled and easier to evaluate. 12 months is just kind of a horrible age in general for dogs

With the vast majority of adult dogs coming out of a shelter environment, you can actually use the whole culture-shock phenomenon to your advantage. When dogs come into a new environment, there's a 2-3 week 'honey moon' period where the dog is spending most of their time figuring out how things work. It's almost like an accelerated version of a puppy growing up and learning what is okay to do and what is not okay. Fairly enforcing rules and teaching your dog how you want things to work during that period will go a very long way towards both building a relationship but also towards teaching manners to an ignorant dog who just never got 'em in the first place. And assuming the dog has no outright bad habits counterproductive to what you want to teach (and no very strong instincts or drives that contradict what you want- just a nice well-rounded average pet type dog), you can get that dog ready to go with some intensive work as a young adult MUCH faster than waiting for a puppy to be a learning sponge for a few months, then go through obnoxious teenager period when the brain falls out, and then mature back into the dog you hoped for.

A jack russell will definitely kill raccoon. But keeping it from killing the much more easily accessible chickens in a guarding situation is going to be a freaking miracle.

Mink I actually think may be somewhat tricky and maybe someone with more LGD experience (Mine is 75% with Pyrs and I've never even SEEN a mink that wasn't on a coat) but I'm not so sure that most LGDs are necessarily giong to register a mink as a threat. (The only mink control critters I know have all been barn cats.) And honestly? I wouldn't rule out an older non-LGD breed who has prey drive but is generally too lazy to bother with chickens (but hates squirrels and will chase raccoons)- I know an awful lot of lab mixes and shepherd mixes that fit that bill admirably.

Some thoughts and observations. Huskies certainly know how too find their way home. The guardian instinct and the hunting instinct are incompatible. The guardian dogs have had hunting bred out of them, but guarding they do just great, when they are bonded to their "pack". That bonding part happens early in life. Livestock guardian dogs will most definitely kill, not just run off, perceived threats. But, their presence will greatly reduce the number of predators that try their luck against the dogs.

The dog you have described is one I would not bring into a farm situation. Teaching the dog not to mess with "your" animals at a year old and a history of cooped up apartment living - I think it a gamble with too high a downside.

Landon, huskies and shepherds can do a number on people too. Personally I know noone that has been attacked by a Pyrenees and a few who have been pretty seriously bitten by shepherds (unprovoked attacks) and witnessed one huskie attack.

I am now looking for a Pyrenees, I think just their presence alone will freak out any raccoons or cougars, we have so many predators here. I was watching a thing about GP's herding sheep and I was really impressed. I'm trying to find an adult GP. There was one at the spca and people just really like the look of the dog, a woman there told me he was supposed to be a house dog and not "just left out in the yard" I can't imagine a more miserable GP than one stuck inside a house to meet the warped emotional needs of that woman... I digress...

About the husky/german shepherd, if I kept him busy, like rigging up some kind of harness and wagon that he could pull (things too heavey for me like logs or soil) but not let him anywhere near the poultry, would that be a good job for a dog like a husky?

Apologies for any typos, I'm replying from the tablet. Yes, a husky will pull, but your typical sibe is kind of overkill. T they're meant to be really fast, and cover a lot of ground. But at the same time, I know a lot of GSDs who think that kind of thing isa blast! (My . mix won't pull by himself, although he is ok in a team.) Mixes like that (i.e. not a purpose bred mix like Pyr x Akbash) are frequently hard to predict, partially because well, generally not much thought Went into breeding them. But at the same time, well, sometimes you get lucky

For typical "Household use", a Pyr will actually do what you want too, if he or she is trained to. (Not all Pyrs working as flock guardians will be willing to leave their changes ever during the day)..YMMV. Also worth noting is that Pyrs and other LGDs *don't* herd. ever. And while it is great for Pyrs to do their traditional work, not all of them are capable of it. Some are frankly worthless guards, but can make great pets. some of then are way happier on someone's sofa that's why its important to buy not just any Pyr but ore from parents that actually work.

I just looked at 7 week old 1/2Maremma/ 1/4border colly/ 1/4pit bull puppies. One puppy toddled over to me and the kids and sniffed us all, and then she sat down in front of us most of the time, the rest of the puppies weren't much interested. I think this is the winning dog for us. Her profile looks just like a Maremma, but her colouring is like a border colly (black and white) and her hair is shorter like a pit bull. Cute little bitch.

Opinions please.

I think that she will probably be a perfectly great pet.

I think it's totally impossible to predict if she will have any aptitude for guarding or what her prey drive will be like. Pit bulls and BCs can both be VERY high drive, and some of the HIGHEST drive sport dogs I know are 'border staffs' (staffordshire bull terrier (one of the breeds commonly lumped in with pitties) crossed with border collie- it's fairly common intentional crossbreeding for flyball, and the dogs it produces are INSANELY prey driven.)

If you are okay with her 'washing out' of LGD work, I think she sounds super cute and you sound smitten. But if you are going to need to rehome her if she can't do the work, better off letting her find a pet home now that isn't so specific in their requirements.

Peter Ellis wrote:

Huskies and shepherds can do a number on people too. Personally I know noone that has been attacked by a Pyrenees and a few who have been pretty seriously bitten by shepherds (unprovoked attacks) and witnessed one huskie attack.

Totally agreed, any dog over about 20 pounds can be a serious issue in the wrong circumstances.

So, I didn't go with the border colly/pit bull/merrama puppies. I am now looking at at 4-5 month old male Ackbash. Is he too old? He is on a 100 acre farm that has sheep and chickens, he hasn't had much training but is familiar with people and livestock.

We a raised alot of huskies. And husky crosses. They killed anything they could get their hands on, chickens, goats, rabbits,cats......The best dog we found was a Great Pyrnees. Especially for wolves , coyotes , raccoons, it killed them all and created a wider circle around the farm all the time. They do bark at night, but they really keep things at bay. Good dogs.

I've never owned one but I've been around alot of anatolians. There a little on the bark bark bark loud side sometimes and can be exceptionally intimidation but they seem to work well for the owners I know.

I got the Ackbash, he is one big dog already. Pity the raccoon who dares venture near my poultry.

I agree with the emphasis on the genetics. The caveat is that if you already have a dog, or have some reason to take in another dog, you can work with it and see how it does.

If you want to be convinced of the genetics of behavior, just watch your young poultry. Even those raised without a mother (like the chicks or ducklings you get at 1 day of age) show unbelievable instinctive actions: scratching chickens, swimming ducks, both species biting at imaginary insects but doing so in different ways. Likewise there is a reason it is so easy to teach a dog to be housetrained (the den instinct) and a cat to be litter-trained. You can switch those roles if you insist, but you'll put forth a lot of effort and only a persistent and quality training technique will get a dog using a litter box. A few cats do potty outside, but that's probably because they've found their ideal "litter" out there and you certainly can't count on it when you get a housecat.

We have a lab mix and a shepherd, both dogs that we had before the poultry. They are both good obedient dogs but their instincts are different. Some days you can see it just by watching them hang out. One day after a big snow the shepherd went charging outside to play, and make her usual "perimeter run" around the front of our property. The labrador stood there looking at her like "What on earth are you doing running in those useless circles. Especially in this deep snow. Sigh." We walked with the dogs out into the woods, where the labrador was sniffing at everything, digging through the snow, and submerged herself in the creek. The shepherd stared at her like "What are you doing? Getting wet, putting your mouth on everything. I want none of that!"

When we first got poultry, we gave each of them a chance around the birds. Sara, the lab, could not overcome her hunting instincts. I was sitting with her while a chicken strolled by. She was fairly calm, then the chicken flapped its wings a little. Poor Sara started shaking and drooling.

Roxy, the shepherd was actually great with the chickens. She learned the "leave it" command well when she was young, and she's never had much interest in killing prey. We had her around the poultry on leash, then nearby, then eventually out with them for hours. The adult and baby chicks could walk right up to her nose and there were no problems. However, we also had muscovy ducklings and she started to get a different interest in them. As the ducklings got more strung out in their foraging, Roxy couldn't handle the concept of 1 or 2 ducks on their own. Her herding instincts would overwhelm her and she put her mouth on the duck, injuring it. This happened twice, both times more quickly than we could prevent with a command.

Sometimes the poultry are in a portable run for foraging, or fenced in a specific area. But if they are free-ranging, they can't be out the same time as the dogs. We just take turns.

We will likely get a GP one of these days.

I was losing most of my poultry the past two years. First a fox and than by an ever increasing pack of coyotes. The problem got worse as my old dog got older. It became very clear that a single dog didn't stand a chance against increasing superior numbers. The old dog passed and we went looking for replacements. We needed a large dog with the potential ability to defend itself and not run off and cower on the porch. We needed defending along with the poultry. We were also hoping that such a dog would not eat the poultry. In the end, after being trapped in the barn by a pack of six coyotes, the potential poultry killing aspect of a dog became less of a priority.

We were lucky and found a litter of mutts. Labrador, German Shepherd, Colley, Springer Spanial mix. The parents and relatives were all available to see. The adult dogs had good size and personalities and the puppies were raised in a large dog pack with good social acclimatization. They have all the major attributes of all the breeds. They love water, chase anything that moves, and try to help with herding if I can keep the chase under control. Although they will attack poultry, it is in the labrador style. They will gently grab the bird and play with it before getting around to killing it. I have been able to rescue a few chickens and ducks that were carried off to the front yard for a bit of fun. The chicken at risk has plenty of time to start squawking and get rescued. The dogs don't have a mean bone in their bodies where people are concerned so I know they won't bite anyone coming down the drive, but they are getting so big that most people act with caution and behave themselves which is just fine with me.

These puppies are now a year old and almost table height. We chose 2 males and did not neuter them as we felt they needed their testosterone to do the job they were presented with. They have wrasseled with one another from day one and have their fighting skills reasonably practiced. Although they were also kept around poultry under strict supervision, the net result has been that while they do not mess with them while I am around, they cannot resist once the pack leader is gone for more than 10 minutes and its game over for cats who are not on the ball. The hunt instincts are just too strong. They have already proved themselves at guarding me. The coyotes rushed the barn again last week while I was bringing in bedding and the dogs double downed on the leader. Gave me time to grab the bang stick and help out before the dogs were out numbered.

I will have to build a large dog run in the spring if I want to chance free ranging the poultry again. The dogs cannot be left loose with the poultry. My hope is that the dogs running loose all winter and than nightly during the spring, summer, fall will be enough to keep the coyotes at bay. (the Amish neighbors are out hunting coyotes now as well) Only time will tell. One way or the other we will work it out, because once I take a dog, its for life even if the parameters change.

As a dog trainer, I don't want to say ignore the genetics, because they certainly CAN play a role- but they're not everything, and especially in non-purpose-bred litters, trying to count on a dog to be what their genetics say they should be, behaviorally, can be a bad idea. They may be, but they may not be- you have to evaluate the dog in front of you, not just what they should be on paper.

C. Hunter wrote:As a dog trainer, I don't want to say ignore the genetics, because they certainly CAN play a role- but they're not everything, and especially in non-purpose-bred litters, trying to count on a dog to be what their genetics say they should be, behaviorally, can be a bad idea. They may be, but they may not be- you have to evaluate the dog in front of you, not just what they should be on paper.

I tend to agree with you, and I still have not found the right dog yet. I looked at a blue heeler the other day but didn't take her. Her hind legs were bowed and her hips looked stiff, she was also separate from her litter mates and not a hefty as them. I thought she was the runt. The advice I got on a blue heeler was "run screaming" the real misgiving I had about her were the hips. Her personality seemed nice though, she cuddled right up to me, which I wasn't expecting, the other puppies certainly didn't cuddle up to me.

As of right now I am inquiring about a Great Pyrenees Lab mix, a Tervuren and a German Shepherd, both pure breds.

how do you know which puppy to choose, what should I look for in evaluating a dog?

(BTW I had to give back the Akbash, he was way too rough with the kids.)

Any dog I own has to be a multi-tasker, they're allowed to hunt, but only what I choose for them to hunt, they're expected to watch over my property and possessions without using anything as a chew toy, and finally they're supposed to alert me when something comes around that's not normally around. You can do this with most dogs but it takes time and training. I've used anything from pit bulls to hounds to Jack Russels, you just have to take the time to train the dog. I don't have much experience with the guarding dogs but any dog will revert to being a dog and doing dog stuff if you don't work with them almost daily IMO. One type of dog that has been bred for doing what we're talking about are cur dogs, but even with these dogs selection and training is key. I currently own a Blue Lacy (a cur type) he's a proven blood tracker, will find and bay hogs (ferals), keeps coons, cats, skunks, and other non desirables off the property. His continuing education is to leave the chickens out of the mix, he's very good as long as things are calm but in the excitement of chasing other varmints he's still wanting to go-go-go after everything else calms down. I'm thinking that he associates the chickens raising a ruckus equals something for him to get, so if he runs through them and gets them fired up another coon will magically appear. Which reminds me, you also need to keep a dog excersised, pent up energy leads to bad habits more often than not and patrolling the perimeter fence is just another routine.

I personally adore Tervs and GSDs but I *like* training dogs. Both need training and explanations of what you expect, if you aren't clear in your instructions, they will create their own, and you may or may not like them.

I think your best bet at this point is to meet all three dogs and pick the one that you like the best, but realize you are going to have to do training- to get the dog to do what you want, to be polite with the kids, to not chase chickens, etc.

Tracy Kuykendall wrote:Any dog I own has to be a multi-tasker, they're allowed to hunt, but only what I choose for them to hunt, they're expected to watch over my property and possessions without using anything as a chew toy, and finally they're supposed to alert me when something comes around that's not normally around. You can do this with most dogs but it takes time and training. I've used anything from pit bulls to hounds to Jack Russels, you just have to take the time to train the dog. I don't have much experience with the guarding dogs but any dog will revert to being a dog and doing dog stuff if you don't work with them almost daily IMO. One type of dog that has been bred for doing what we're talking about are cur dogs, but even with these dogs selection and training is key. I currently own a Blue Lacy (a cur type) he's a proven blood tracker, will find and bay hogs (ferals), keeps coons, cats, skunks, and other non desirables off the property. His continuing education is to leave the chickens out of the mix, he's very good as long as things are calm but in the excitement of chasing other varmints he's still wanting to go-go-go after everything else calms down. I'm thinking that he associates the chickens raising a ruckus equals something for him to get, so if he runs through them and gets them fired up another coon will magically appear. Which reminds me, you also need to keep a dog excersised, pent up energy leads to bad habits more often than not and patrolling the perimeter fence is just another routine.

I am looking at a coon hound, 2 years old and crate trained. But will she be trainable at two years? Any advice on hounds?

It will depend on the dog, as a whole hounds are headstrong and will have a tendency to roam. I have seen some that were decent general purpose farm dogs though, have seen more hound/cur crosses used for this purpose.

Tracy Kuykendall wrote:It will depend on the dog, as a whole hounds are headstrong and will have a tendency to roam. I have seen some that were decent general purpose farm dogs though, have seen more hound/cur crosses used for this purpose.

I am looking at a 1.5 year old Irish Wolf Hound/German Shepherd neutered male tomorrow. He was never trained not to jump up on people. I'll be looking at him for temperament and overall health. But I have my doubts, don't think they are trainable at 1.5 years old. AT least I can have a look.

I was looking at Shiloh Shepherds but I just don't have $2200 for a breeding female, those and GP's are on my short list, but it's all about the temperament.

Betty, go here ranchworldads.com-ranch dogs, get in touch with some of these people, tell them what it is your wanting, look over their dogs, I'd bet somewhere amongst those folks you'll find someone who can pair you up with the dog that'll work for you, just be careful to not let some dog peddler sell you something you don't want, if they're a honest, reputable working dog breeder they will show you their dogs in action and will answer all your questions, many will even help you get started.

From my many years of experience with dogs past and present:

Cattle dog/shep(unsprayed as yet)...terrible with livestock, wants to kill
American Bulldog(spayed, purebred)....fantastic! Talent for herding and protection, too friendly to people but looks scary, smart
German Shepherd (neutered, purebred)...great! Herding, protection, intimidating but harmless unless needed, proud/stubborn
Rottweiler(spayed)....the very best ever!!! herding, protection, intimidating looking but harmless, willing and easy to train
Boxer/Pit (neutered)...has potential, good alarm dog, (boxers are bad for cats unless socialized early IMO), smart and willing
Dobie/shep(neutered)...serious protection, action now, question later!, good with livestock
Dobie (pure,neutered)...one was lazy and one was hyper and cat killer, smart
Chihuahuas(neutered, spayed)....would never have one on purpose, good thing they are small cuz they would like to kill something, alarm dogs
Terriers(neutered, spayed)...entertainers, most have been okay with livestock, good alarm dogs and brave for their size, one boy adopted
and raised orphan kittens with help from a bottle
Hounds(yep, spayed, neutered)...noisy but can be trained to control that, must run but will come home, mine were not good with livestock
Mastiff(spayed, neutered too)...great dogs but slow moving. Bad guys run even before the dog gets on his feet. Emotionally sensitive, giant hearts,
not long lived unfortunately
Springer Spaniel Mix(spayed late in life, I was a child, no pups)...walked through fire to save my life. (good with livestock too)

So, my conclusion is...It depends on the individual.

Lots of good insight and advice here. Thanks for starting this thread Betty. I agree with Tracy; in re-reading your initial question it seems you have been looking for a LGD. You want a dog to protect your animals. If you want to maximize the chances for getting a real good LGD you might want to get one from a breeder. My guess is that you have been surfing the rescue dog postings and falling in love with a number of sweet, sentient beings which is what i have done and am still prone to do. My last dog was a 7 month old lab/white shepherd husky etc. mix who I picked up at the shelter--- an impulse "buy"-- We put her down at age 15, she was a wonderful dog but challenging: stole food, wouldn't/couldn't retrieve, not content to be outside alone for more than 5 minutes. She was my best friend.

You already have an animal community with needs that are more specific and less flexible. Ideally, you probably want some kind of Great Pyrenees, already living with the kind of animals you have. The closer you get to that the better.

As of today I still don't have a dog. I'm very pragmatic about it, I've looked at a lot of dogs all different breeds and I do keep coming back to the Great Pyrenees. Everytime I see one I'm just delighted with them. They're a little hard to find and people tend to want $1000 for them. I've seen varying degrees of inbreeding and temperament. The inbreeding is the worst tho because the dog is just not healthy, and the hip dysplasia is chronic. There are also the GP's that people are trying to get rid of because they weren't properly handled at a young enough age and so the dog becomes unmanageable. Also the backyard breeders hold on to the puppies too long trying to get $1000 for them (which seriously no one who farms can afford) and the puppies aren't socialized by the breeder and you get a bunch of dangerous dogs that can only relate to other dogs. These are the ones who jump up on you all the time and that can be scarey in a 120 pound dog, especially one with no people skills. So I've seen a lot of very unhealthy handling of dogs in general. If I can get a 7 week old GP bitch I'll be content. The trick is finding one that isn't priced out of what I can afford.

wish me luck! or Godspeed or whatever.

I have finally got my dog, she is a Great Pyrenees, born on a farm to working parents. LOVE her! It only took 6 months of searching to finally find the right dog. She's just perfect. Thanks for all the advice!