• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic

The Rumford Mass Fireplace  RSS feed

 
David Hogan
Posts: 36
Location: Columbia Falls MT
bee cat woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hola

After sitting here watching Erica and Ernie on DVD I start looking stuff up online. I ended up looking at a lot of Rumford papers but didn't see anything about adding mass to a Rumford.

One of my decision hurdles for our building plans is heating. The Queen of the castle will not be without her fireplace but that doesn't mean it has to be a wasteful one for the sake of aesthetics and ambiance. The thought of a Rumford with mass came to mind.

Has anyone read anything about such a beast?

I would imagine the mass would be in the sides, back and floor of the burn area and possibly surrounding the chimney. I dont think much heat would absorb into the mantel area given that the room air would shield it from the hot air of the fire as it curves into the chimney.

Thoughts, opinions, ideas? All are welcome.
 
Ann Torrence
steward
Posts: 1191
Location: Torrey, UT; 6,840'/2085m; 7.5" precip; 125 frost-free days
111
bee books chicken duck goat trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
How would that differ from a masonry heater aka Russian fireplace?
 
Dillon Nichols
pollinator
Posts: 597
Location: Victoria BC
28
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The Rumford design as I understand it is all about two things; maximizing radiant heating via the shallow, angled aides, and minimizing losses of heated room air, by means of a streamloned chimney theoat to reduce turbulence.

If you kept these aspects, this would make it quite different from a Russian fireplace/masonry heater, since those are generally built to absorb as much heat as possible from short, hot fires, via ducting, ie turbulence... then radiate this out from the mass over time. Pretty near polar opposites...

I don't think changing either aspect of a Rumford in isolation would work well, the features strike me as interdependent.

Adding substantial mass to an otherwise unaltered Rumford design doesn't seem terribly problematic, but I can't see it performing as well as a purpose built mass-heater. However, I like the idea of building a Rumford into the same mass as a masonry heater/RMH...

 
David Hogan
Posts: 36
Location: Columbia Falls MT
bee cat woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
"However, I like the idea of building a Rumford into the same mass as a masonry heater"

That was my thought. I just wonder if it would be worth the effort. I cant find any info on it.
 
Glenn Herbert
gardener
Posts: 2287
Location: Upstate NY, zone 5
80
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think that would work fine. Just locate the RMH appropriately, and add the Rumford to the side of the mass where it will be comfortable to use. There would end up being some extra thickness in parts of the mass wall, but that would be a minor issue. You would of course need separate chimneys.
 
Terry Ruth
Posts: 698
26
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Its been a while since I researched this but it is based on pressure differentials in the chamber, pressure and temp differentials at the bottom and top. The top high flow, low pressure and temp. Bottom inverse, that creates a tall burn, very clean, very efficient! Some smart guy that knew how carburetors/venturi worked probably invented it. The underlying principle is Bernoulli's. Surround it by mass would be nothing new. Since the heat is tall and fast at top there is probably a temp drop it would still make sense to extend the mass more vertically than horizontally. There are a number of inserts that can be set in mass.

IIRC, there is back sealed flapper to exterior air or you can design intake and exhaust. To get the design to work properly one must follow the engineering. The key is the size and shape of the convergant vertical exhaust up the flu. That is why an insert might be a better way to go since it s/b tested.

Feel free to correct me, again it's been a while.

I'm looking for a wood burning stove unit if anyone seen one. My freezing temp HVAC loads are so low I'd overheat the place with mass
 
allen lumley
pollinator
Posts: 4154
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
58
books fungi hugelkultur solar wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
David Hogan : Here is a link to the history of the man and the fireplace below :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Thompson

Note in (figure#6) the rebuild of the old ''Ox Cooker'' style into a Rumsford ! A further search with '' Rumsford fireplaces pictures'' or " Rumsford fireplaces images ''

should show you that the amount of mass that you can add is nearly unlimited! I would however build it totally internally or if necessary to build against an outside wall

add an insulating box around that structure !

Some where there is a picture of a rocket mass heater that had a small Rumsford Fireplace included - This would generally require that only one got used at a time or

that there were two chimneys ! - If i can locate that picture I will post it here. For the Good of the Crafts ! Big AL
 
Beware the other head of science - it bites! Nibble on this message:
30-Day Green Smoothie Challenge eBook by Sergei Boutenko
https://permies.com/t/72418/digital-market/digital-market/Day-Green-Smoothie-Challenge-eBook
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!