• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Anne Miller
  • Nancy Reading
  • John F Dean
  • r ransom
  • paul wheaton
  • Timothy Norton
stewards:
  • Jay Angler
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Andrés Bernal
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • M Ljin
  • Thekla McDaniels
  • May Lotito

Function stacking - warm shade

 
pollinator
Posts: 11856
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
1307
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm working on an area around a rainwater tank where I plan to put another tank and eventually have a small citrus grove on the south side: https://permies.com/t/53597/trees/Lemon-scheme

The north side will be mostly shaded by the house and two large elm trees. It can be unirrigated and dry, or it can be irrigated easily by a nearby hose. It could even at some point be irrigated by kitchen greywater, but that's a whole nuther project.

What would you plant there? Is there some kind of vine that might enjoy starting in the shade and climbing up the tanks to get a little more sun? Pretty flowers and/or fruit would be a bonus, as this will be somewhat visible from the house.

 
Posts: 53
Location: Newfoundland
1
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'd recommend going with a vine berry, just for the fruit.
To much sun and raspberries/blackberries burn up. However, raspberries/blackberries do have some maintence to them, even if you get the thornless varieties, tellis' them for support would be a good idea so that wind or a heavy rain doesn't beat them down, cutting back the old vines every year for most of the, etc. And they do like water.
There's Kiwi's, which are always interesting.
But probably best might be a grape. Some are okay with shade, drought hardy, cold hardy for most varieties, and a lot of them don't tolerate wet soil. Tho you have to check for self-fertile/cultivars.

http://ediblelandscaping.com/products/vines/Grapes/
http://store.isons.com/muscadine-vines/self-fertile-varieties

Oh, and Currants, Currants! Black or Red. Grows in shade, but late blooming. They're more tart than sweet. And spicy smelling when they're ripe. The red ones are gorgeous and tends to hang like grape clusters.
https://www.jungseed.com/P/30156/Rovada+Red+Currant
http://ediblelandscaping.com/products/berries/Currants/


 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
Posts: 11856
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
1307
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you for those suggestions, Alice. I'm leaning toward the grape idea.

 
gardener
Posts: 2371
Location: Just northwest of Austin, TX
564
2
cat rabbit urban cooking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Something you might consider, for the same reasons that a water cistern can provide a warmer microclimate in winter, can it also create a cooler microclimate in summer?

I'm on my third year of trying to grow runner beans and so far I've had very mixed results. If the current attempt doesn't work, I think I may try growing them by our cistern next year. Thank you for the inspiration.
 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
Posts: 11856
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
1307
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You're right, Casie. The big tanks of water should moderate temperatures in both directions.
 
Posts: 3
Location: Spokane, United States
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cautiously consider passionfruit like the tropical lilikoi or maypop that is native to north America. Chinese magnilia vine is another great option. I do strongly suggest that they be isolated if you plant them where they will be perenial by either using a large pot and dripper or having an unirrigated grass or dry pathway bordering them. Using a tropical non perennial and bringing a couple specimen inside for the winter is probably the safest bet to be safest from them becoming invasive. Chinese magnilia vine is very invasive and hardy so use extreme caution when planning it's location. These plants are very desireable and well worth the efforts to try growing them. Passionfruit is extremely flavorful and sour if you enjoy such flavors. I am currently growing them as a hanging basket in my window. Chinese magnilia is called five flavor because it is sweet, tart, salty, bitter, and delicious. It is extremely nutritious and one of the esential Chinese medical herbs.
 
Posts: 92
Location: Columbia Missouri
15
forest garden urban bike
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One thing that does well in dry shady conditions is HOSTA. When I was working as a landscaper that was our go to plant for ground cover.  What I didn't know then is that the young shoots are edible and taste like Asparagus.
 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
Posts: 11856
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
1307
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here's a photo of this protected spot.   Is there a kind of subtropical or tropical fruit I might try here?
P1070636.JPG
[Thumbnail for P1070636.JPG]
 
gardener
Posts: 6838
Location: Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
1803
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken writing homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Since the space looks to be at least partial shade I'd look into huckleberry, serviceberry, papaya, guava, banana.
To make it a bit easier for you to choose go to this link to the Florida conference, 10 top tropical/subtropical fruit trees  ten top tropical and subtropical fruit trees

Redhawk
 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
Posts: 11856
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
1307
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you, Redhawk!   I'm tempted to try all three of those tropicals - Guava, Papaya, and Banana.  The Lemon is doing so well on the other side, I'm very encouraged.

 
Posts: 664
Location: Australia, New South Wales. Köppen: Cfa (Humid Subtropical), USDA: 10/11
3
transportation hugelkultur cat forest garden fish trees urban chicken cooking woodworking homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Tyler Ludens wrote:I have a nice protected North-facing area behind my large water tanks.  On the South side I have a Lemon tree https://permies.com/t/53597/Lemon-scheme

What would be the most productive use of this North-facing area?  Semi-shaded by Elm trees.




Ginger and mint should grow well. Paw Paw may be okay. I understand some of the berry family grow well in shade too (I don't grow berries).

Choko (Chayote) may grow well if allowed to trail over the tanks to get some sunlight - keeping the roots in the moist shade.

Perhaps the biggest challenge is the elm, with its root system as a competitor.

 
Won't you please? Please won't you be my neighbor? - Fred Rogers. Tiny ad:
A rocket mass heater is the most sustainable way to heat a conventional home
http://woodheat.net
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic