• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
  • paul wheaton
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Julia Winter
stewards:
  • Burra Maluca
  • Devaka Cooray
  • Bill Erickson
garden masters:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Bryant RedHawk
  • Mike Jay
gardeners:
  • Joseph Lofthouse
  • Dan Boone
  • Daron Williams

selling meat chickens?  RSS feed

 
                            
Posts: 37
Location: australia
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
any north americans able to sell meat chickens from the farm gate?
in australia we need to sell 500 a time to get the economies of scale to pay for third party processing ( and transport)
this is out of the question for us
we would like to supply a limited number of meat chickens to our existing meat and egg customers, and we are looking for ideas...
 
Posts: 700
Location: rainier OR
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
that depends on where you are here in the states, we have quite a patchwork of local regs, most places do seem to want meat to be packed by a professional. though you can get around them most places by selling live birds your customers can butcher themselves. and here in Oregon the licensing is actually lenient enough that we have a number of mobile butchers who will come out to your farm and slaughter and process for a reasonable fee
 
                            
Posts: 37
Location: australia
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
brice
the mobile butcher can come to a farm and prepare meat for the residents, but the meat may not leave the farm
and the regulations for farm processing are horendous, a small unit being described as 'less than 30000 birds a month'
they didn't have one for a dozen birds every now and then
so your option is the best...give them a live bird in a basket and a leaflet
but it's going to give them a whole new perspective on 'preparing dinner!'

btw beef and lamb work quite well, clients prepay us, we deliver to the abbatoir, and they forward the meat to our butcher where the client picks it up
we'll call the chicken basket the too hard basket,... unless.....

cheers

 
steward
Posts: 3410
Location: woodland, washington
87
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
a few counties in Washington State rent mobile slaughter equipment for a low price.  the one I'm familiar with was $20/day.  included kill cones, scalding tank, plucker, chill tank, and eviscerating table.  varies by county, but I believe that in King County the number is 500 birds before you have to go through any sort of permitting or inspection.  and it's no problem to sell them dead.

I would expect to net between $0 and $15/chicken.  wide range as there are a lot of variables involved.  the 50 broiler flock I was involved with ended up netting about $10 each.  not a bad return, but not a huge income, either.
 
                            
Posts: 37
Location: australia
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

tel jetson wrote:
a few counties in Washington State rent mobile slaughter equipment for a low price.


they sound enlightened, I should get the ball rolling here, where bureaucracy reigns
thanks tel
 
pollinator
Posts: 2103
Location: Oakland, CA
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

hiawatha wrote:...give them a live bird in a basket and a leaflet
but it's going to give them a whole new perspective on 'preparing dinner!'



IIRC, Polyface Farm sells a chicken that's alive, but already in a cone. I think there might be a legal gray area where you can allow your customers to use your equipment after they've bought a chicken, maybe even walk them through it.
 
tel jetson
steward
Posts: 3410
Location: woodland, washington
87
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I want to mention that some folks have been having trouble with the Freedom Ranger chickens that have become popular in the last few years.  there have increasingly been some chicks with too many heads, or ruined feet, or bad beaks, or dead.  something to consider.  maybe breeding birds to grow fast inevitably leads to problems.

out of the fifty Freedom Rangers we raised, only two had any problems.  one died young and one had some problems with its feet.  a farm close by that raises several thousand every year has had rather more problems that we did, such as whole shipments of hundreds of chicks arriving dead and all of the previous problems I mentioned occurring at fairly high rates.  something to consider.

for myself, I'm considering raising birds that don't grow quite so fast, but can fend for themselves without supplemental feed.  the meat will obviously not be nearly so tender as the typical broilers most folks are familiar with, but the trade off may be worth it for me.
 
Posts: 120
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
this guy has a good set up i think and walks you threw every thing with a seres of videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1sEpGxeTsg

i hope this helps
 
tel jetson
steward
Posts: 3410
Location: woodland, washington
87
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

thecheapguy wrote:
this guy has a good set up i think and walks you threw every thing with a seres of videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1sEpGxeTsg

i hope this helps



that video is about rabbits.  does he have a chickens video?
 
marty reed
Posts: 120
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
im sorry i posted this in the wrong spot ill try and find a chicken one for you
 
marty reed
Posts: 120
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t87hXEVmBQw here is one about harvesting your checkens it is a small scale might help you a little
 
                                        
Posts: 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We sell meat birds.
We operate as a chicken share program, much the same way the milk/cow share program we help run.
$10 down per bird, with a minimum of 5 birds.
$10 per bird at finishing, with the us assisting the customers with the processing, after full payment.
They are raised on grass, with a diet of local Barley, sunflower seeds and fish meal.
We advertise with an emphasis on soy and corn free for those with allergies.
 
Posts: 115
Location: Eastern Shore VA
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bubblingbrooks wrote:
We sell meat birds.
We operate as a chicken share program, much the same way the milk/cow share program we help run.
$10 down per bird, with a minimum of 5 birds.
$10 per bird at finishing, with the us assisting the customers with the processing, after full payment.
They are raised on grass, with a diet of local Barley, sunflower seeds and fish meal.
We advertise with an emphasis on soy and corn free for those with allergies.



I'm sorry I just must not be awake, yet. 
Is it $10 down, which comes off the price/pound, I imagine and then a $10 "processing" fee?
Or
Are your birds selling for 20 bucks?
 
                                        
Posts: 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
$20 total. They pay half at order time, and then the rest when they arrive to assist in the processing.
In the end, we are helping them process the chickens they own.
Keeps us legal, as we cannot sell meat, nor are we licensed to process meat for sale.
 
Chris Fitt
Posts: 115
Location: Eastern Shore VA
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bubblingbrooks wrote:
$20 total. They pay half at order time, and then the rest when they arrive to assist in the processing.
In the end, we are helping them process the chickens they own.
Keeps us legal, as we cannot sell meat, nor are we licensed to process meat for sale.



That is cool especially the no corn no soy stuff.  Where do you get your fish meal?

I also like the $20 total idea, but how do you deal with the varying weights of the birds.  When we slaughter chickens here the are any where from 3.25# to 5.5#.

Do the customers do their own processing?
 
                                        
Posts: 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
As far as weights are concerned, the customers understand that the chickens all vary in weight.
Dressed weight for us, is 4-7 pounds.
We buy the fishmeal at one of the local feed suppliers.
We all work together on the processing.

It costs us about $10 in grain per bird to raise them, so the other $10 goes to feeding a bird for our freezer.
 
                                  
Posts: 21
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here we go together like a co-op and puchase the birds.  Split the cost of raising and processing.  Ours have to be taken to the processer live.  We found an amish guy that processes them for 3 bucks a bird. Freezer ready.  get a straight run of meat birds at 99 cents each, pasture feed with minimal supplementation.  ends up about 5-6 bucks a bird.  Around the same if not better than the store and we know where they came from (just sayin'.
 
                                        
Posts: 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Woodmyst wrote:
Here we go together like a co-op and puchase the birds.  Split the cost of raising and processing.  Ours have to be taken to the processer live.  We found an amish guy that processes them for 3 bucks a bird. Freezer ready.  get a straight run of meat birds at 99 cents each, pasture feed with minimal supplementation.  ends up about 5-6 bucks a bird.  Around the same if not better than the store and we know where they came from (just sayin'.


Ours get full grass and forage as well. The $10 per bird in grain, is because we live in Alaska, and our prices are higher 
We feed local bulk barley, BOSS and fishmeal.
 
                                  
Posts: 21
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bubblingbrooks wrote:
Ours get full grass and forage as well. The $10 per bird in grain, is because we live in Alaska, and our prices are higher 
We feed local bulk barley, BOSS and fishmeal.



  You are probably shorter on time up there too.  I mean with the growing season being short you probably gotta get 'er done!  Most of the grain fed chix here are ready to process in about 8 weeks.  Mine go 12 or when I think they're fat enough! LOL!
 
                                        
Posts: 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Woodmyst wrote:
  You are probably shorter on time up there too.  I mean with the growing season being short you probably gotta get 'er done!  Most of the grain fed chix here are ready to process in about 8 weeks.  Mine go 12 or when I think they're fat enough! LOL!


We're not that pressed for time. Ours go from 8-12 weeks. We hold off on processing the smaller ones, and let them catch up 
 
gardener
Posts: 1352
Location: Cascades of Oregon
14
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Looks as if it might become easier in Oregon now.

www.friendsoffamilyfarmers.org/?p=1027
 
                                  
Posts: 21
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wow! That's cool.  I'd like to see more States take a stance like that.  Instead of holding women and children at gunpoint for selling raw milk or organic meats!
 
steward
Posts: 8019
Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
299
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Oregon is a "strange" state.  No sales tax.  Not many jobs.  Depressed economy.  High unemployment...unemployment was so bad that they passed a law ("for safety reasons" that you cannot pump your own gas...a station employee MUST pump your gas for you.
Yet everybody wants their food organically or naturally raised.  I know people there who raise poultry, and they can easily get 2x what I can for eggs or meat.  There is "no money" in the state, yet they pay double for food than we do in Seattle.  Huh?  But a carton of cigarettes is $25-30 cheaper there than here.
 
Robert Ray
gardener
Posts: 1352
Location: Cascades of Oregon
14
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Trust me I make up for sales tax in property taxes. The gas pumping thing isn't something new. It doesn't make any sense but its been that way forever.
I am not joking here, but I saw rabbit in an upscale market for 22.00 a pound and goat at 37.00 pound not too long ago. 
I'm glad to see that there is some movement to help small producers none the less.
 
 
tel jetson
steward
Posts: 3410
Location: woodland, washington
87
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
at the risk of heading into taboo territory, maybe what we can learn from Oregon is similar to what we could have learned from pre-boom Ireland: a depressed economy isn't the same as depressed quality of life.


I'll be interested to see what happens if a bird processed under these new regulations makes somebody sick.  to me, that will be a better indicator of where Oregon is on the spectrum of food policy.  it's relatively easy to jump on the local food and small producer bandwagon because there are an awful lot of obvious and great benefits.  but there are also a handful of possible negative consequences that come along with those benefits, and the public reaction to those will be telling.

just to be clear, I believe that assuming a small risk of food-borne illness is a far better option than any of the industrial disinfection methods.  and I'm also not suggesting that industrial food doesn't make people sick, just that nobody is likely to call into question that entire model when it does make people sick.
 
                            
Posts: 37
Location: australia
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

tel jetson wrote:
maybe what we can learn from Oregon is similar to what we could have learned from pre-boom Ireland: a depressed economy isn't the same as depressed quality of life.


great post tel

I just wanted to repeat your statement in case anybody missed its sagacity
 
pollinator
Posts: 10058
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
255
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I just want to mention the fact that folks can get around most laws against selling animals and produce by engaging in the Sharing or gift economy.  Give products away to your friends and neighbors.  Your friends and neighbors, loving you and the way you improve the quality of their lives, give you gifts of cash.  In the US, cash gifts need not be declared to the government unless they exceed $13,000 per person.

Keep in mind Sharing and Gifting is not barter.  No equal value is transferred.  What is the value of a better quality of life?  Priceless! 

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=108139,00.html
 
tel jetson
steward
Posts: 3410
Location: woodland, washington
87
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Ludi wrote:
I just want to mention the fact that folks can get around most laws against selling animals and produce by engaging in the Sharing or Gift Economy.



there are restrictions explicitly designed to prohibit this sort of thing in many places.  personally, those are restrictions that I believe should be flagrantly ignored, but they exist all the same.  chances of prosecution seem pretty slim, but not taking any sort of compensation doesn't necessarily put anyone in the legal clear.
 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
Posts: 10058
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
255
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

tel jetson wrote:
there are restrictions explicitly designed to prohibit this sort of thing in many places. 



Restrictions against sharing with your friends and neighbors?  Can you post some links to the specific laws, thanks.

This sounds a lot like the supposed laws against growing food in your yard, which do not exist.  So I kind of don't believe there are laws against sharing with your friends and family.

 
tel jetson
steward
Posts: 3410
Location: woodland, washington
87
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'll try to find the actual laws later this evening, but I believe they were at the state level.  it's been maybe five or more years since I read them.  and they were in reaction to clever ways around restrictions on raw milk and un-inspected meat slaughtering, such as animal shares.  not only did they make animal shares illegal, they went a step further and made consumption by anybody other than the person actually raising the animal illegal.  ridiculous, of course, and I never did hear of any enforcement.  may have been about lawsuit-shy legislatures just trying to cover their asses.

I don't believe these laws are very widespread, but I'm not certain about that.  my previous post suggested they are common, which was probably a bit of hyperbole.
 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
Posts: 10058
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
255
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ok, as I understand it "shares" is a form of sales but I may be mistaken.  I'm talking about actually sharing with family and friends. I don't know how it could be illegal to share food with your friends and family.    How do I cook and serve dinner? 

If you could find the citations that would be great.

 
tel jetson
steward
Posts: 3410
Location: woodland, washington
87
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Ludi wrote:
Ok, as I understand it "shares" is a form of sales but I may be mistaken.  I'm talking about actually sharing with family and friends. I don't know how it could be illegal to share food with your friends and family.     How do I cook and serve dinner?   

If you could find the citations that would be great.



the shares are absolutely a form of sales, though they're designed to get around sales regulations.  but the laws in question went beyond banning shares to banning use by anyone other than the producer.  and it wasn't all food.  in the cases I remember, the laws deal only with either raw milk and dairy products or meat slaughtered outside of USDA-inspected facilities.

I'll try to find them tonight.  got some other priorities first, but I'll give it a shot.  and there is always the chance that I dreamed this.
 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
Posts: 10058
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
255
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I realize all my posts about the Sharing Economy are off-topic in this forum.  Sorry. 
 
tel jetson
steward
Posts: 3410
Location: woodland, washington
87
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I briefly tried to find reference to the laws I was going on about, but couldn't find them.  rather than try harder to find them, I'm instead going to back off what I said.  if I come across them, I'll post again.
 
John Polk
steward
Posts: 8019
Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
299
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The large scale dairy industry is (so far) the only segment of farming which has benefited from tougher Ag laws.  In their case, they have almost entirely eliminated the small, independent operator.  I fear that the next to fall will be the independent egg producer.  A few more regulations is all it will take to shut down that industry.  I recently read that the only meat that can be sold without passing through an inspection process is rabbit.  What's next?  "The Tomato Wars?"
 
Posts: 41
Location: Jamberoo, NSW, Australia
4
chicken rabbit woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm also in Australia (like the OP), and have also been trying to find a way to sell meat chickens, ducks, rabbits, etc. Or even just give them to friends and family.

My understanding of the laws (which are pretty hard to actually track down!) is that meat for sale must be killed in a licensed abattoir, and transported to a licensed butcher by licensed transport.

It doesn't seem like you can do any part of the process yourself, unless you pay to become licensed (which involves certification, inspections, policies, etc). And of course, the cost to be licensed is prohibitive for small-scale operations.

You are allowed to kill animals at home for your own consumption, but there are restrictions. You are only allowed to serve the meat to your immediate family (i.e. no dinner guests), and none of the meat or animal remains (guts, bones, etc) are allowed to leave your property. Some farmers have even gotten in trouble for killing an animal on their farm just out of town and taking the meat back to their home in town for consumption - it's a different property.

I'd love to be able to confirm whether my understanding of the laws (in particular for NSW, Australia) is correct. If anybody has further info or can point me at a proper resource, I'd really appreciate it.

I have tried to think of various legal ways around this, but haven't come up with anything. The clincher is that the meat is not allowed to leave the property where it was slaughtered. It's probably illegal for me to kill and butcher the animal at their place, too, since I'm not licensed to do it.

It seems that the only way for me to sell meat to someone here is to sell them the live animal. They'll have to kill and butcher it themselves when they get home. About all I can do is give them a brochure and a DVD on how to do it and wish them luck.
 
Posts: 158
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wait a minute here>>>!!! Are you telling me that there are laws that say I can't  grow an animal on MY property, kill it on MY property, and have it for dinner on MY property....and invite some guests to eat at MY table if they eat that meat
Come on.....give me a break!
 
Darren Collins
Posts: 41
Location: Jamberoo, NSW, Australia
4
chicken rabbit woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Apparently so, although I haven't been able to confirm it categorically yet.

I have heard of people running their own small farm or permaculture property offering "bed-and-breakfast" accommodation, and then having to jump through ridiculous hoops to ensure those people don't eat uncertified milk, eggs or meat raised on that property (even having to have separate fridges for guests vs family).

The stuff about not being allowed to take it off your property is confirmed in this interview:

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2010/06/28/2287792.htm

There's an argument to be made (wasn't it Martin Luther King?) that unjust laws should be broken. Even the United Nations views the right to food as a fundamental human right:

"To sum up, the right to food means that governments must not take actions that result in increasing levels of hunger, food insecurity and malnutrition." from http://www.righttofood.org/new/html/WhatRighttofood.html

I doubt that anyone could argue that these regulations DON'T result in increasing levels of food insecurity.
 
Darren Collins
Posts: 41
Location: Jamberoo, NSW, Australia
4
chicken rabbit woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Doing some more research over lunch, I came across this interesting forum thread:

http://www.aquaponicshq.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-897.html

Right down the bottom they say that you CAN serve home-killed meat to guests on your property, but not paying guests. Unfortunately, the link they supplied to the Rural Law Handbook is broken and I can't find the information there anywhere.

So it looks like that part of my understanding was incorrect, although that's not fully confirmed. Good news, though.
 
John Polk
steward
Posts: 8019
Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
299
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The Bed and Breakfast scenario is much different than having friends/family over for a meal.

The B & B is essentially a business, and the "Breakfast" puts you in the category of operating a restaurant.
 
I miss the old days when I would think up a sinister scheme for world domination and you would show a little emotional support. So just look at this tiny ad:
What would you cook first in a rocket oven?
https://permies.com/t/89866/cook-rocket-oven
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!