Rocket Heater UL-1482 Tested UPDATE!

I heave GREAT news!

We at Liberator LLC have discovered a proprietary coating that will increase the thermal resistance of steel to well over 2200 degree's, the coating itself is rated to over 3400 F!

I can not tell anyone about the specifics but what I can say is that its an old industry standard and proven technology that insulates metal even when they are WAY past the point of incandescence from oxygen and oxidizing and lasts for decades. We will commence coating the internal parts of our heaters with this coating as soon as possible!

Steel Rocket Heaters it turns out are not doomed after all!

how will this affect the ul rating and testing?

now that you can increase the temps in the heat riser are you going to insulate it?

We will begin using the coating in limited area's that are most vulnerable (its hundreds of dollars a gallon) and prone to rusting, which I'm sure you already know what area's those are, all you folks here are competent so I dont need to tell you. But discovering this coating has made using insulation a secondary priority so we will use it whenever we get around to totally redesigning the heater from the ground up in 5 years or so. Its really just a matter of cost. Our heaters are expensive enough as is, and the returns on doubling the cost is simply not worth it for those who want to buy a safety tested rocket heater. Like I said we may get around to using insulation, hopefully sooner than later, but thats down the road. Right now if we dont make any sales we will NEVER be able to produce the ultimate pinnacle design of the Rocket Heater which is where my father and I want to eventually take it, I do believe that is the next logical step along with EPA testing.

So for anyone who wants a safety tested Rocket Heater dont be shy, I'll be the first to admit that design improvements will be made as years go by but the cost savings of buying one now if you are using a conventional stove will still pay for the heater and then some by the time we get our Rocket Heater 2.0 onto market. Also, considering purchasing a Rocket Heater from us kind of like a Kickstarter, but you get the heater immediately and you help us further develop the Rocket Heater into the ultimate hyper-efficient super stove! I'm not all in this for profit like I said but this is my father and I's full time job. And right now nobody is buying so we are seriously considering abandoning the business and going back to work at machine/weld shops. I personally feel having people like us make Rocket Heaters our full time job is actually beneficial to the DIY community here because we essentially live and breathe Rocket Heaters in the same way Ford did with cars and Tesla did with electricity (not trying to come off as comparing ourselves to these great historical legends I'm just trying to say we are afforded the luxury to do a metric buttload more research, design, study, engineering, and testing than most people). Not to mention that all our product and what we develop will be public information as time goes on and so everyone here will benefit from our research and experiments. To put it simply, we put in all the time, experiments, effort, research, trial and error, then come out with a "perfected" product thats third party tested for efficiency that DIY'ers can duplicate for themselves, this way you all KNOW your home made Rocket Heater is efficient as can be!

I really wanna take rocket Heaters to a level of science and professionalism never before seen. With all respect to Ernie and Erica and Paul Wheaten and all the pioneers I do recall them mentioning that it could take decades to get the Rocket Heater to a level of mass acceptance in both safety and third party testing. I want to get all that done in 5 years or less and we already got the safety testing and listing done in three years. We put ink to paper originally in 2013 just as a concept and its barely 2016 and now we are here with a pellet burning Rocket Heater on the mass market. I feel this to be a true achievement not just for my father and I but for ALL the Rocket Heater advocates and builders and DIY'ers because it gives us all vindication and credibility!

I want the Rocket Heater to be officially the most efficient Wood, Pellet, Coal, Woodchip, and fluid fuel stove in the world. I dont want to win this title just for my Rocket Heater, but for pride and vindication of ALL Rocket Heaters and their respective builders/owners!

So again if you think there are people out there who need a safety tested Rocket Heater please share our Youtube video around and as always I apologize if we are coming off as being desperate here, in all honestly we kind of are. I hope I didn't come off like a narcissist or shameless self promoting greedy salesman, even though I am doing a little self promotion and stretching it a bit too far. My intentions here, however, are sincere.

F Styles wrote:how will this affect the ul rating and testing?

now that you can increase the temps in the heat riser are you going to insulate it?

maybe you could offer a slip on insulator sleeve or suggest one that people can buy for this improved stove so that people can have higher temps. many people here with a few exceptions are seeking higher temps.

the safety tested steps you took is a good option with your stove.

maybe you dont have to throw in the towel for your company yet if you supplement the stove part with welding jobs to keeping it floating until your sales go up. of course we will have a hard time in this country if we dont reverse our industry in a hurry and bring back prosperity. give it till the end of the this year tll things start to come apart at the seems. economy, riots, geo political environments are not good for small businesses.

Unfortunately the top plate is permanently welded on so simply slipping on insulation would be impossible. Good news is that this coating itself is a light insulator.

We have been taking in welding jobs on the side but so far only two people have contacted us, which in it of itself wont pay the bills. We are going to try and stick it out for another year, if things dont turn around by then we will dissolve the company. And I 100% agree with you on those last sentiments! Everybody in power thinks the industrial base is some relic of the past and puts erroneously hard codes on manufacturers, hence we had to move 80 miles away from the nearest city just to build our micro-factory.

F Styles wrote:maybe you could offer a slip on insulator sleeve or suggest one that people can buy for this improved stove so that people can have higher temps. many people here with a few exceptions are seeking higher temps.

the safety tested steps you took is a good option with your stove.

maybe you dont have to throw in the towel for your company yet if you supplement the stove part with welding jobs to keeping it floating until your sales go up. of course we will have a hard time in this country if we dont reverse our industry in a hurry and bring back prosperity. give it till the end of the this year tll things start to come apart at the seems. economy, riots, geo political environments are not good for small businesses.

I have mentioned ceramic coating my original prototype model , it's what they do on high performance exhaust headders and manifolds that turn red on the dyno.

It's sad that saving trees and the environment and getting people good products takes so much investment and Rigga-Marole

If someone could build a stainless or titanium or even MILD steel unit with ceramic coated parts and proper design, the world would save a lot on heating and deforestation and these things burn clean and efficient which is also great.

I think your business will work, maybe start a "go fund me" account and people are willing to help invest in our visions.

I say don't even consider stopping or throwing in the towel yet! What about all the work and testing, and what happened at the university? Don't let all that go to waste, keep trying, and don't be afraid to ask for help.

March onward and let me know what happened at the university for the stove test results

Ceramic coatings for auto's we have looked into as well unfortunately for some chemical reason they can't withstand direct contact with fire.

Its not really problematic, we know what needs to be done we just dont have the money to do. Thats the only problem.

I will say however that the coating we are using is much better than ceramic. Its the same stuff used to coat electrical heating coils/elements

We aen't going to throw in the towl just yet, we gotta give it another year or so and then we will decide. Ultimately all the testing and refinement in the world is great, but that doesn't pay the bills. Sales do. And right now nobody is buying any for some reaosn. Could be that its spring? I dont know. We will definitely let everyone know what the testing report says!

John McDoodle wrote:I have mentioned ceramic coating my original prototype model , it's what they do on high performance exhaust headders and manifolds that turn red on the dyno.

It's sad that saving trees and the environment and getting people good products takes so much investment and Rigga-Marole

If someone could build a stainless or titanium or even MILD steel unit with ceramic coated parts and proper design, the world would save a lot on heating and deforestation and these things burn clean and efficient which is also great.

I think your business will work, maybe start a "go fund me" account and people are willing to help invest in our visions.

I say don't even consider stopping or throwing in the towel yet! What about all the work and testing, and what happened at the university? Don't let all that go to waste, keep trying, and don't be afraid to ask for help.

March onward and let me know what happened at the university for the stove test results

not the automotive stuff per-se but i have found ceramic and carbon coatings that can be in the flame path.

regardless keep going and pimp those puppies out - maybe advertise more or demonstrate for crowds somehow. there is also a certain buyer demographic im sure

I had wondered for a while about this. Not only are there the automotive exhaust coatings, but there are other coatings used on pistons and other parts that are only a few ten-thousandths of an inch thick that can withstand extreme temperatures and environments, and greatly increase the reflectivity of the surface so it doesn't absorb as much heat. This leads to better combustion. Not that any of it is cheap, but it is one method of getting towards a goal of getting something that is 'regulator approved'.

The mass heaters can be much cheaper, but also are custom which makes it near impossible to get uniform acceptance. I guess this is one small area where I am lucky that I don't need much heat!

UPDATE!
We will be debuting our stove at the NPS Expo in Virginia on May 7th. If anyone here is in the area and want to see our stove in person, please take note.

Your product looks very good!
I was curious if the product you are currently offering on sale is endowed with this new proprietary coating,

And does
this new coating cut down on the heat transfer?

In certain critical area's, it is coated with the new special coating.

Robin Redmond wrote:Your product looks very good!
I was curious if the product you are currently offering on sale is endowed with this new proprietary coating,

And does
this new coating cut down on the heat transfer?

We really want a rocket mass heater, but living in a home with crawl spaces and basement so looking @ woodburner instead.  After a little preliminary planning/dreaming, decided to check with insurance agent to see requirements to avoid nullifying our fire protection.  He said that woodburner MUST be UL approved and installed per manufacturing instructions and inspected by fire inspector.
So after reading above and hearing the concerns around slow sales, the need for UL approval is a BIG deal for increasing sales.  My guess is that getting that approval rating is why the Kimberly(drooling....) or the Katydid fuel gasifiers cost $4000 , add up to a grand for installation extras.  They have made this a luxury item, basically, marketed toward the mariner crowd, but its the only rocket stove that has gotten the approval.
Any ideas as to how they achieved that could be very useful in proceeding.
A go fund me page is awesome idea, if that's what's holding this product back.
New to forum, apologies if this is rehashed info/ideas.

Colleen Eissens wrote:We really want a rocket mass heater, but living in a home with crawl spaces and basement so looking @ woodburner instead.  After a little preliminary planning/dreaming, decided to check with insurance agent to see requirements to avoid nullifying our fire protection.  He said that woodburner MUST be UL approved and installed per manufacturing instructions and inspected by fire inspector.
So after reading above and hearing the concerns around slow sales, the need for UL approval is a BIG deal for increasing sales.  My guess is that getting that approval rating is why the Kimberly(drooling....) or the Katydid fuel gasifiers cost $4000 , add up to a grand for installation extras.  They have made this a luxury item, basically, marketed toward the mariner crowd, but its the only rocket stove that has gotten the approval.
Any ideas as to how they achieved that could be very useful in proceeding.
A go fund me page is awesome idea, if that's what's holding this product back.
New to forum, apologies if this is rehashed info/ideas.

Insurance company's, when they say "UL approval" they mean tested and approved to UL standards by a third party lab accredited by ISO. Which we already are. We comply with any insurance policy's that permit wood stove's.

A common misconception is that UL is a government agency. They're not and they are no better as far as building codes and insurance is concerned than any other testing lab. Many company's that make wood stoves (including ours) have opted to not get it tested by UL but instead one of their competitors due to the huge cost difference. Again, as far as building codes and insurance company's are concerned there is no difference. US Stove Company, Hearthstone, Drolet,  Vermont Castings, Jotul, and many others are starting to use testing labs such as Intertek, Warnock Hersey, Omni-test, Spectrum Labs, Guardian, and many others.

UL is not a monopoly. Their listing is no better as far as insurance company's are concerned than any other ISO certified testing lab.

So to sum it up, yes, we already meet ALL building code and insurance standards for safety. That is a fact and I stand by that statement. If your insurance company has a problem with it tell them to contact me and I will show them mountains of paperwork, testing reports, approval by certified boards of engineers, and much more. Thus far I've never had to do that and I doubt I ever will.