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Eco sewage treatment

 
Y Yusuf
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Is it possible to have a water toilet and be able to treat the water maybe by separating the solids and water. Composting the solids and treating the water in a Reed bed. Is there an efficient way of doing this?
 
nikos pappas
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one of the best books on the subject that you can find

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sewage-Solutions-Answering-Nature-Third/dp/1902175263
 
Steve Farmer
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Such a system is described here

http://www.permaculture.co.uk/readers-solutions/how-make-vermicomposting-flush-toilet

This was discussed extensively on a permies thread. I just searched the relevant keywords but got no matches.
 
Jason Silberschneider
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It seems to me like you want to shit in your drinking water... and then almost immediately you want to efficiently and conveniently get the shit out of your drinking water.

This is quite a dilemma.

Part of the problem solving process in permaculture involves rephrasing the question in such a way that the answer presents itself right before your eyes.

WHY do you want to shit in your drinking water?
 
Y Yusuf
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Where I'm from friend, the only drinking water is in bottles. And I would not shit in that. Most often the way it seems is not what it is.

Jason Silberschneider wrote:It seems to me like you want to shit in your drinking water... and then almost immediately you want to efficiently and conveniently get the shit out of your drinking water.

This is quite a dilemma.

Part of the problem solving process in permaculture involves rephrasing the question in such a way that the answer presents itself right before your eyes.

WHY do you want to shit in your drinking water?
 
Wyatt Barnes
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Water based sewage removal systems are extremely convenient compared to every other system I have seen, providing you have enough water and don't have to haul or pump the water by hand. I have lots of water, don't have to pump it by hand and I would certainly consider an eco friendly system that used water for when I cannot physically haul around pails. Lead on Yusuf.
 
Tyler Ludens
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Anna Edey made a very simple home system using worms: http://www.solviva.com/wastewater.htm

I think this could be part of a more elaborate system for growing food, running the effluent through a series of beds for growing mulch and compost materials which would go on to grow food, in a closed-loop concept.

 
Y Yusuf
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Seems like a viable option. Would have to be tested . Are there anyone who has used this system?

Steve Farmer wrote:Such a system is described here

http://www.permaculture.co.uk/readers-solutions/how-make-vermicomposting-flush-toilet

This was discussed extensively on a permies thread. I just searched the relevant keywords but got no matches.
 
Rebecca Norman
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I visited Ana Edey and saw her worm box. Very impressive!

The toilet flushed into a box filled with wood chips and compost worms. It was insulated against the cold winter there. The liquid flows down and out of the bottom immediately so the worms don't drown, and goes down into a perforated pipe in a gravel trench, where it feeds the roots of pine trees and meadow. She said she'd never had to change over to a second chamber because the first chamber never gets full. She just adds more wood chips from time to time. I forget the exact number of years, but it was over ten years in the current single box, and had been over ten years in the previous location with the unused second chamber. There was a visible turd on top of the beautiful black compost, but it didn't really smell. She dug at the compost with a stick, and it was black, teeming with worms, and chunky with not-yet--composted woodchips.

I also prefer a dry composting toilet system when possible, but I understand that there are many situations where a water-flushed toilet is preferable or necessary.
 
kay Smith
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Location: Alabama
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I have toured natural water management systems in Jamaica. they are able to achieve levels of purity to within ranges of which we approve in the US. So yes in theory what you have in mind could be implemented on a homestead.

However it would be much more involved. Not to mention you'll hopefully want to treat the water as environmentally friendly as possible which means waiting months for all of those microbes to break down organic matter.
 
eric koperek
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TO: Y Yusuf
FROM: Eric Koperek = erickoperek@gmail.com
SUBJECT: Biological Sewage Treatment Systems
DATE: PM 3:34 Saturday 11 June 2016
TEXT:

(1) The basic principle of waste disposal technology is to keep solids and liquids separate. Mixing sewage with water makes disposal problems worse, not better. Translation: Your best bet is an old-fashioned outhouse or composting toilet. Wastes are contained not transported somewhere else. For best results make sure your toilet is well screened and DOWN DRAFTED so you don't have bugs or odors rising from the "hole".

(2) If you are stuck with a flush waste system try to separate individual waste streams. Rainwater goes to cisterns. Gray Water (from sinks, showers, and laundry) goes to reed bed or artificial marsh. Sewage goes to septic tank or sewage treatment lagoon.

(3) Many people use septic tanks for sewage treatment. RULE: Double the size of your septic tank. RULE: Double the size of your leach field. RULE: Always install two (2) septic tanks in sequence to prevent your leach drain lines from becoming clogged. Replacing a septic field is very costly; installing a second septic tank is much less expensive. RULE: Do not plant trees anywhere near septic leach fields; tree roots will clog drain lines. RULE: Do not plant gardens over septic fields. RULE: Always fill septic trenches with gravel so you know exactly where drain lines are located. Note: You can drain your septic system into a sewage treatment lagoon if desired. This is often cheaper and easier to maintain than an underground leach field.

(4) I grew up in a 400 year old house with a Roman Toilet = a trough with constantly running water. The water drained into a fish pond which drained into a marsh which drained into a creek. Nowadays modern biological sewage treatment systems are designed a little differently. Drain sewage into an aeration lagoon not more than 3 feet deep and not less than 2 feet deep. Drain aeration lagoon into filtration marsh 6 inches deep (or use a 6 inch deep pebble bed planted with reeds and other marsh plants). Drain filtration marsh into fish pond. Drain fish pond into stream or other natural waterway (if allowed by local laws).

(5) Allow 1 cubic yard or 1 cubic meter of sewage lagoon capacity per person x 30 days. Allow 6 square yards or 6 square meters of filtration marsh per person x 30 days. Allow 30 cubic yards or 30 cubic meters of fish pond per person. This system is over-engineered to be idiot proof in any climate. Translation: This will work without smell, mess, or pollution. Effluent (in fish pond) will be of potable water quality.

(6) A less expensive solution is to build a self-contained = completely isolated aeration lagoon. Lagoon must be at least 2 feet deep but not more than 3 feet deep (so water gets enough oxygen). Allow 30 cubic yards or 30 cubic meters of capacity per person for a private treatment pond (This is way over-engineered but absolutely reliable). For public waste treatment, a 1-acre pond measuring 209 feet wide x 209 feet long x 3 feet deep can safely process all sewage from 300 to 400 houses = 1,500 to 2,000 people (4 or 5 persons per household). All water from self-contained lagoons escapes only by evaporation. Note: The above treatment solutions meet World Health Organization sanitary standards.

(7) To control mosquitoes it is good practice to install solar-powered pond aerators or fountains in aeration lagoons. Agitated water prevents adult mosquitoes from laying eggs. In tropical climates add mosquito fish or gold fish to sewage treatment ponds to eat mosquito larvae.

( Stocking sewage treatment ponds with carp will keep lagoons clean and tidy. This is a common European practice that dates back to the mid 19th century = 1840 or so.

ERIC KOPEREK = erickoperek@gmail.com

end comment




 
Wyatt Barnes
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Hi Eric, when you say RULE do you mean that as must do/mandated or do you mean it is a good idea/strongly suggested?
 
eric koperek
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TO: Wyatt Barnes
FROM: Eric Koperek = erickoperek@gmail.com
SUBJECT: "ERIC'S RULES"
DATE: PM 7:35 Wednesday 15 June 2016
TEXT:

(1) "RULE" means do this or bad things will happen. Eric's Rules are based on a century of personal and professional experience. If you research Eric's Rules carefully, you will discover that they also happen to comply with relevant building codes, sanitary regulations, and "good construction practice" as defined by Guild or Union standards. Eric does not give information lightly. I make my living by always being right. (Being wrong gets Eric sued for damages).

(2) That said, all "rules" are voluntary in the sense that you don't absolutely always have to follow them. You don't have to double the size of your septic tank, or double the size of your leach field, or install 2 septic tanks in sequence, or refrain from planting trees or gardens over septic fields, or filling septic trenches with rocks so you can see where the drain lines run. You DON'T have to do all of these things. As they say, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Do what Eric tells you and you will have an "idiot proof" septic system that will last more than 100 years without trouble or maintenance other than pumping your septic tank once yearly (whether it needs it or not). It costs relatively little to install a "good" septic system. It costs enormous sums to dig up and replace a "bad" septic system. The last client "squeaked" when I quoted him $15,000 to do what he should have done in the first place. (And I was the lowest bidder).

(3) RULE: Don't put roads, driveways, or parking lots over septic tanks or leach fields. (The weight and vibration of vehicles will compact soil, break tanks, and collapse drain lines).

(4) My Great Grandfather taught me this RULE: "Do it right the first time".

(5) Please send me an e-mail if you have any questions or require additional information. (Or do your homework and spend 6 weeks reading everything you can find about septic systems on the Internet).

ERIC KOPEREK = erickoperek@gmail.com

end comment




 
Wyatt Barnes
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Thanks for the clarification Eric.
 
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