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clean out works and didn't work  RSS feed

 
Posts: 144
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It's time to clean out the ducts and I found out my clean out doesn't work. I can't clean the ducts because of the 90% elbows connect to the clean out. I had to break down my bench one more time to fix it so that the clean out would fit for the clean out job. This is the third time I had to break down my bench.

In the future if you see someone do this kind of clean out with the elbow connect to it, please let them know they can't clean the duct with that. Before when I did my bench, I upload my pics so that you guys would give me tips in case I did something wrong. No one say any thing about this clean out and now I had to redo it, huhuhuhuhuh
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Posts: 551
Location: Central Virginia USA
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Sorry you felt let down by the Permies crowd, I never saw your original post, but I have a similar setup, and failing any brainstorm on how to set it up to clean out easily/cheaply,  i just left the two elbows at the end sort of outside of the bench--buried in clay, but only loose stuff so the end bricks could be removed and the joints easily uncovered. your solution looks pretty workable, and if I ever have to finalize my  bench, I may use that idea.

I have thought about some of the arrangements pictured in some of the builds, and it starts to look like the only real way to do an easy clean is with a vacuum cleaner that can filter out the ash
Even with your cleanout, which seems to solve the problem of access, you have added some extra resistance  with the sharp right angle turns in the "T" s instead of the nice gradual curve of the elbows, so depending on the length of your exhaust and how good the push out of the stove you may find that arrangement adds to smoke back at times.

probably a good idea to run a test fire before making that arrangement (more) "permanent"

I like my rocket stove a lot, but have accepted the fact that it is still somewhat experimental and will need occasional redesign and rebuilding.

 
Posts: 592
Location: Chicago/San Francisco
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> shop vac collect ash

If there's a lot or enough to plug a vac filter too quick, you could try this trick.

A  barrel or garbage bin with a cyclone extractor mounted on top. The lid needs to seal air tight but although mechanical fastening would be best, if it's air sealed the vacuum will hold it on solid when running.

Dust Deputy
http://www.busybeetools.com/products/dust-deputy-diy-cyclone-only-oneida.html

I use an old shipping barrel (~40 gal?) w/a plastic garbage bag as a liner. It has to overlap the top all around and seal. The shop vac tended to collapse the sides of the barrel so I had to take a large piece of something moderate stiff and  roll it so it would fit inside; let it expand, mark it take it out and cut it (w/4"+ of overlap) then put it back in w/lots of good glue along the overlap. This provides a reinforcement for the walls that won't collapse from the even pressure exerted by the vacuum. I think this only worlds for a round container. Don't remember if I reinforced the top w/plywood, but the bottom, no.

Worked well for 20 hours or so of power stripping paint from clapboards. Most debris stayed in the barrel, used a HEPA filter and never had to change it or clean it - suction never dropped any.

Rufus
 
Diana Lee
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Actually I should not whining. I changed my mind lately. Before they showed me to do that clean out using a shop vac. But now I think I want to clean out using shop vac and I want see the inside. Already done with everything and run test 3 times. Seems normal to me.  Don't seems like having big change or big problem. Here is the burn. Weather is 75 F out side
,
 
Diana Lee
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I am in big trouble, I need help please

The video I posted after fixing my clean outs, look pretty good. My burning is reasonable running into the burn tunnel and no smoke even my redo portion was still wet. Now my RMH totally burns up and smoke up, black smoke all over the green house. What's going wrong. Please give me advise, what would cause this burn up and smoke up, and how do I fix it please
 
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Location: Northern Germany (Zone 8a)
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hey... i do not have much knowledge about it. but when the RMH run well and that stopped suddenly, i think that something inside might have fallen apart and is obstructing the flow of the exhaust-gasses.
can you check burntunnel, heatriser and "manifold"?
maybe even the chimney is clogged/blocked by someting form the outside?
EDIT: maybe strong winds could be the cause?

my guess is that the heatriser broke and maybe fell into the "manifold".

good luck and blessings
tobias
 
gardener
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I agree with Tobias, something has changed ! Check your riser , inspect your pipes,   no way it just decided not to work ...
 
gardener
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Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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Two little mirrors tu use in the burn tunnel as a periscope to check things in there.

I can't remember if you have a barrel lid, but if you don't get one. Cut the top of your actual barrel, and check your manifold transition, check your chimney. IIRC, you have a grid on your chimney cowl? May be some critter found it nice to nest where it's hot!
 
Diana Lee
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I have a lid and I already opened it this morning. The heat riser is in tact and good. I have fired bricks for my heat riser. Except that it was so dirty. I forgot to take picture of it.

This year it is not that cold, but my dad likes to burn, so he burns a little bit, not a full feed tube, half a feed tube for couple of hours, since mid-Oct until now. I think it's not hot enough to burn all the inside so black black dirty. The heat riser has layer of black didn't see before. Before it had some white ashes cover the yellow fired brick, this time I opened it, it was black and dirty, I had to have something to scrape it.

But my RMH was fine until one week now the flame started to dance like lost soul doens't knnow what direction to go, think my RMH have no draft. So the flame dance around weakly and burn up, sending black smoke

What's wrong?
 
Satamax Antone
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Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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Well, good to hear your dad still takes care of the stove.

I can't remember exactly how your stove is implemented. I remember you having a fair bit of trouble at first.

So, get an incense stick. Light it, put it in the feed, to see with the smoke, if you have draft.

Then block the feed, go to the next cleanout with your incense stick, open and see if you have draft.

Close that cleanout and repeat at the next one etc. That would help you narrow an area where the problem lies.

I bet you have a fallen debris, or soot, or an accumulation of ashes somewhere which blocks the draft. When modifying the end of the bench, you haven't forgotten something inside? A pipe which has collapsed? Wet bench giving you trouble?

But what you describe is typical of a blocked flue path or restriction. Usually check the transition from barrel to bench first.
 
Satamax Antone
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Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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So, i checked everything back.

This one might not be cleaned easily



Check well there.

Then this! Which i didn't pay attention to before.



Well, such a transition is no good. Not enough room for the gases to enter the tube. We have spoken about that one before. I re read the whole thread. Where you take notice of the bad transition. But i haven't seen a photo of the revised one.

Usually this is where 90% of the problems arrise.

Another thing i have forgotten. Sometimes cleanout caps extract too much heat. Insulate these with roxul or batt insulation. Temporary. Since you have added the two T's and two cleanouts. Things have changed.

May be it's also time for a good burn. Not just a meager one. To warm the bench properly.



 
Diana Lee
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Satamax

I do have a lot of soot. The kind of soot which hanging down like bunch of messy hair stick together into little bunch, around 1 inches long. Enclosed is the picture I took from one of my duct when clean out. So, I have to clean out all of my ducts? You mean these soots cause burn back and smoke? But why do I have soots now? Last time I clean out after 1 season of hard burn and it is much better than this, no soot. Just one month since my last clean out and this time it was horrible with soot

you are right about the extension. One last part of the duct I can't clean out, but I can put the hose of the shop vac in there and try my best.
The duct as a manifold sticks into the barrel was my original version. My RMH gone through a lot of "new model". I no longer have that kind of manifold. Mine is the hand made big manifold. My RMH is kind a "Intel Core i8" now. I mean went through a few times of upgrade and better model
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gardener
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Location: Upstate NY, zone 5
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You said your father has been doing short burns or half loads of wood in the feed... maybe you are not getting hot enough to have full combustion. It may be normal to get some soot at the start of a burn, but if all you have is starts, you may get extra soot buildup. I think you need to make sure that every time there is a fire, it gets really hot fast, and burns long enough to heat up the system inside.
 
Diana Lee
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How do I clean up the soot now? A lot of place I can not reach
 
Diana Lee
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The place I cant reach is the new extention with the elbow. What do you think if I take out the elbow, put a 1feet duct in it and put cob around, I turn the duct so it won't stay put, when it dry out some what, I will pull the duct out so I can have a new clean out (for cleanning purpose), and I will put a cap there seal off. so that spot will not have duct but it has a clean out. The spot is too tight to put another T like the other end. It doesn't work so I have it bare with no duct. Would that work?
 
Satamax Antone
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Bacon Lee wrote:
The place I cant reach is the new extention with the elbow. What do you think if I take out the elbow, put a 1feet duct in it and put cob around, I turn the duct so it won't stay put, when it dry out some what, I will pull the duct out so I can have a new clean out (for cleanning purpose), and I will put a cap there seal off. so that spot will not have duct but it has a clean out. The spot is too tight to put another T like the other end. It doesn't work so I have it bare with no duct. Would that work?



Bacon Lee.

Well, you mean here?



I think i understand, you have another T at the other end of this pipe, with your double T arrangement?

If yes, i think your best solution would be to revert the T and elbow here. So with your two T's, you can see from T to barrel, from T to the actual extension's T which will be an elbow.

And with the T placed where the elbow is now, you could check the last run of pipe, the elbow at the bottom of the chimney, and clean whatever falls in the chimney.

Get what i'm saying?
 
Diana Lee
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By your advice, I did flip the T yesterday, but the problem is my cob bench is very long 12 feet and I have only 2-3 feet of space at the end of the bench to the wall. I tried the extendable stick, but the max of the stick is still only 8 feet. So 4 feet can’t be accessed to. This time is good because I broke the bench so I have access to it. But next year I don’t want to break the bench again. 4 feet not cleaning is a lot to cause problem. As you have said only one object fall into the duct enough to cause problem. So I finally bought another T. I found a flimsy T at Home Depot. It’s kinda small so it fits in the space.

But I found out an issue. I think this is the reason cause my RMH to have problem:

Before I had this RMH, I used a conventional wood stove heater for 1 year. Because the high heat went directly from the stove to the duct out the exhaust with out going through the cob bench, made the duct deteriorated. I used that same duct in the same place as my vertical duct for my RMH. Yesterday I saw this vertical duct had a hole, big one, 2X4 inchies, right inside the CH. That’s why the CH was so smoky, and my dad keeps burning little … The old duct I used only one more year compare to other ducts. That old one was worn out terriblely compare to other ducts. So the old one is 2 years in service and the new is one year in service, yet the old duct and the new duct of one year apart look like a 70 grandma and a 13 years old little teenager. Hight heat of the conventional wood stove done terrible to the duct.

What kind of effect would that big hole in the vertical duct done to my RMH?
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Diana Lee
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Life is back to normal again. The flame and smoke (if any) know which direction to go, which is the burn turnnel, and they go directly to that direction, no more wondering around like lost soul doesn't know where to go and then go up the feed tube, horri... horri... ble

 
Satamax Antone
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Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft high Southern alpine climate.
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Perfect solution then!
 
bob day
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If anyone is still looking at this thread, is that a heat exchanger in the firebox?  If so that will make everything more difficult. At that point of the burn you are trying to build up heat to get an efficient  high temperature in the heat riser, not take heat away.

I have a heat exchanger wrapped around the barrel, this allows the full temp of the burn and actually will increase the "push" of exhaust out of the manifold by keeping the barrel cool(er).

Cooling the firebox would definitely contribute to the soot buildup you are experiencing also

 
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