Fruit Tree Grafting

I would like to try some fruit tree grafting. I have never attempted to do grafting in my life ( a very new beginner ). I have been reading everything I can on fruit tree grafting and watching many hours of videos. I have called my local and surrounding extension offices along with collages in the area trying to find someone or a class to take being that I have never attempted anything like this. I have found " nothing " in the area along with no classes being offered at anytime. I see so many different ways to do grafting and wondering is there a preference that most new people start with?  I was told however that I should use M111 tree stock in the area I live ( North Carolina ). How does someone get into tree grafting if there is no place to learn how to do it or is it a hands on thing where you just try and fail or succeed ?  I did contact one person I found a man in the area that at one point was selling scion and found out he is not willing to teach me and no longer sells scion. I tried to get some information from him on where I could learn the art of grafting and he said he could not help me. Is grafting a dieing art , secret no one wants to give out or what ? ?  Any information on where I can pick up some rootstock or scion or any information in general that would be helpful would be much appreciated.  Thank you in advance to anyone that replies.

Hi Randy first of all what have you got ? What do you want ?  Then maybe we can find a way together how you can get there
Grafting is such a big subject that if you try to do everything at once it wont work . Plus paying out good money for stuff just to mess up as you are learning  isnt so good either
Can you get hold of any of the following ? quince , hawthorne apple seedlings ? Any scion wood ?

I am mainly wanting to learn how to graft fuji apple trees for now and then move to pear trees. As far as putting my hands on any materials the answer is no. I will have to purchase anything as I cannot find it in the area.I'm wanting to get rootstock and scion and graft my own trees.

ok so whats your area how far can you travel ?

I live in central NC. I would be willing to travel up to 50 miles.

To clarify that a little better I would travel anywhere between Charlotte and Greensboro North Carolina

Randy Bucher wrote:I have found " nothing " in the area along with no classes being offered at anytime. I see so many different ways to do grafting and wondering is there a preference that most new people start with?  I was told however that I should use M111 tree stock in the area I live ( North Carolina ).

Well, this is the wrong time of year for grafting so it's not surprising that you are not finding any classes. Grafting is done in the late winter / early spring, so that is when most classes are held. While you probably won't be grafting for another six months, now is the time to put in an order for root stock for delivery in 2017. Check out your state nursery as they may have really inexpensive apple seedlings that you can use (e.g., Indiana's nursery sells seedlings for about 35 cents each). If you want to get M111 rootstock, I know Copenhaven Nursery sells them for about a dollar each with a minimum order of 100.

Thank you Randy for the interest as i've been asking myself the same question! this forum is Awesome!!

I found a gentlemen in the area that let me come up and showed me how to bench graft. ( great stuff btw ). I see that you say now is the time to order your rootstock, I called the state extension office which put me back in contact with my local extension office that told me no one in the area sells rootstock that I should purchase it off the internet.  ( the gentleman who showed me how to graft could not help me out with any leads on rootstock or scion ).  He as well stated it is the wrong time of year for grafting but did some grafting on 2 branches and said it would be the same way if I chose to go home and practice before hand.  I will be looking for M111 apple rootstock. So any leads that you could give me would be much appreciated.  
Thank You

Randy Bucher wrote: I will be looking for M111 apple rootstock. So any leads that you could give me would be much appreciated.  
Thank You

I have had good luck with Copenhaven farms rootstock, but their minimum is 100. http://copenhavenfarms.com/apple-rootstock-price-list

Fedco of Maine also has quality rootstock. Their minimum is only 10, but they cost 3 times as much as Copenhaven. http://www.fedcoseeds.com/trees/?cat=Rootstock

Randy, I have been trying to find hands on help with grafting for a while.  As luck would have it, I went to the apple festival in Durango this past weekend and met a guy who had a booth promoting Apple production in a nearby town.  He was doing grafting demonstrations and spent a good deal of time with me, showing how it's done and telling me where he got rootstock.  He said he tried grafting the traditional way for a couple of years and had dismal success.  Then he found the grafting tool he was demonstrating and his success rate went to 98%.  The tool is called "scionon", link is http://www.scionon.com/news/article/23
He said it cost him around 200 bucks, but was well worth it after lost years trying to get an orchard established.  He bought root stock from willamette nurseries in Oregon.  100 count was the minimum I think.  He used grafting material from local heritage apple trees.  He left only 3 buds on the stock he grafted so most of the energy went into root production.  Also, he grew in pots for a year so he could bring into his barn in the winter to protect somewhat.  I learned more in 20 minutes standing in front of his booth than months of Internet research.  I'm feeling a lot more optimistic about getting an orchard started.  Experienced help is out there, just hard to find sometimes.

Thank you for the replies so far. I found a gentleman who would show me hands on how to bench graft. ( was not fruit trees but showed me how to graft the whip and tongue style on branches) It was by far very interesting doing it with hands materials then watching a video.
As far as rootstock and scion he said he could not help me out with either of those. I seen a reply from here  for rootstock to find the best possible price along with quality. Someone posted to check out copenhavenfarms which i did and found very reasonable prices rootstock ( to me anyways ). I asked them about apple scion and they said they did not know anyone that they have just heard of people going to the local orchard to ask for scion. I found an orchard that is about 80 miles away from the house and sells scion for $3 a piece. Is this the going price for scion or should i be looking in other directions? I have found a place that swaps scion but looks to me like the rules say you have to have scion to " swap " so not sure that will be any good either. If anyone has certain places they purchase or get scion from can you please point me in the correct direction.
I may be getting in over my head with ordering 100 M11 rootstock but I was always told " if you are going to do it then jump in and do it "...lol.  So far  i have the 100 rootstock on order and 100 - 3 gallon containers already in hand.
Thank You

What do you think about the grafting pruning tools ? Are they good,bad or not worth it ? ( should i just stick with a sharp grafting knife ? ).

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/image-black-professional-nursery-grafting-tool-pruner-2-extra-blades/250020860.html?listingId=285551922&sclid=pla_google_imagestore&adid=29963&gclid=CKCphYO-ws8CFZIbgQodBKQEIQ

Randy Bucher wrote:
I may be getting in over my head with ordering 100 M11 rootstock but I was always told " if you are going to do it then jump in and do it "...lol.  So far  i have the 100 rootstock on order and 100 - 3 gallon containers already in hand.
Thank You

What do you think about the grafting pruning tools ? Are they good,bad or not worth it ? ( should i just stick with a sharp grafting knife ? ).

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/image-black-professional-nursery-grafting-tool-pruner-2-extra-blades/250020860.html?listingId=285551922&sclid=pla_google_imagestore&adid=29963&gclid=CKCphYO-ws8CFZIbgQodBKQEIQ

I use that same tool and it works great - I would recommend it over a knife if you're doing 100.  

My first year I did 100 and then the next year did 1000.  My biggest problem has been low take rate on Asian Pear -- I think they get bacterial infection easily, but that's at my place in the Northwest.  Good luck and have fun!!

I think I have everything covered to graft the apples tree in spring. I still do however have a few questions unanswered.

1-  Soil - Do you buy store bought bags and if so what kind  - or  go to the local landscaper and get some top soil  or/and add some extras in ?  ( soil in the yard is red clay so it is no good )
2 - When to  bench graft apple tree  in NC ( last year I had my garden in the 2nd week of march but covered it 2 times due to frost )
I will be putting my grafted tree into 3 gallon containers so I will be able to move them and care for them easier.
3 -Success rate ? Keep in mind 1st time attempting this
If I am missing anything please feel free to point it out.

Acquired items so far:
100-3 gallon pots - free
100  1/4 apple rootstock - $140
120- scion - not sure yet but said cheap
tools -$49
100-aluminum tree tags-$19 - wire but will be places on the containers not the tree

and of course waiting to find out what people would do about the soil

I would like to thank everyone who has replied to this post. I am learning and I am sure there is still a lot more to learn. I am sure there will be a learning curve but if I find out all I can by mistakes of others then hopefully I can shorten the curve some.

I have a similar tool cost £ 15 that's about 20$ not the 200 $ one maybe not as good but that's 180 $ I did not spend

It may be too late, but here are a few thoughts:

1. There are several fruit growing forums/blogs which have threads on grafting, growingfruit.org is one of my favorites. You may find the info there useful.

2. The advantage to a tool is it works quickly and demands less skill than a simple grafting knife; the disadvantage is most require very close match in root stock and scion diameter to work. That's fine for large commercial ops where they can control the sizes but can pose problems for smaller orders that individuals typically get.

3. The advantage to a knife or box cutter is they are cheap, and with practice can be used to make many types of grafts, including ones where there is not a close match in size between root stock and scion. The disadvantages to the knifes are they require some skill/practice and of course the possibility of cuts (wear thick gloves at least on the hand at risk when using a knife to graft).

4. There are many types of grafts, some which are easier to master than others. Whip and tongue is a good one, but not the easiest to get right. Many folks recommend a cleft graft (even on similar sized stock and scion) for beginners. Check out the online videos and decide for yourself which you feel comfortable with.

5. Regardless of instrument (tool or knife), it is wise to practice before getting to the real trees. You can use any similar sized trees in your area for your practice. Cut the right sized branches from an apple or even a maple and graft away. Just cut it into similar length to what you will be working with and have a go. A few dozen practice tries will make you much more confident when you get to the real plants.

6. If you are not aware of the types of wrappings which go over grafts, do some research before hand. You have choices regarding both the wrap for holding the graft together and a moisture barrier. I personally use parafilm over the entire scion to control moisture loss and over the graft. Then I use electrical tape over the parafilm on the graft itself to hold it together. You have quite a few other choices too. Regardless of which you pick, you should practice doing the wrapping as well as cutting prior to the actual trees.

Good Luck.