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what are the specs for the refractory cement, fire brick and mortar for a bullet proof rmh design

 
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Hi,

I have been on alibaba trying to line up some refractory cement, fire brick and mortar for the bricks.  Does anyone have a spec, or knowledge of the specifications for these products to meet the max temperature to be expected in this type of application?

Is this the right approach?  Is US product cost competitive?  Where is the best place to look for these products?

Has anyone tried to import these products from china?  Are there any constraints on doing this, such as requirements for UL or CSA?

Mark
 
gardener
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I have just recently found a local distributor of refractory product.
I am looking for suggestions for off the shelf solutions.
For example,the distributors website doesn't list riser sleeves,but they probably have them and they are considered possibly the best possible heat riser.
I would google "refractory suppliers" and include your city and/or state in the query.
Shipping costs can multiply the costs of many products.
 
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Firebricks shipping would kill you!

Best approach, secondhand bricks sourced locally.  Second best new ones.

The art of scavenging is your best tool!
 
rocket scientist
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Mark ; What is your location ? Anywhere near Spokane Washington ? White Block ,in Spokane valley has Fire clay at $10.00 a 50# bag, firebricks are near $2.50 each splits are cheaper. With refractory you will want around 2500 F . There is straight refractory and there is insulating refractory. Paying for shipping would be expensive especially from china . Check around, as max said, used firebrick are everywhere. Look for a sawmill with a dry kiln they may have bricks laying around. Refinery's and pulp mills also use large amounts  of firebrick.
 
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thomas rubino wrote:Mark ; What is your location ? Anywhere near Spokane Washington ? White Block ,in Spokane valley has Fire clay at $10.00 a 50# bag, firebricks are near $2.50 each splits are cheaper. With refractory you will want around 2500 F . There is straight refractory and there is insulating refractory. Paying for shipping would be expensive especially from china . Check around, as max said, used firebrick are everywhere. Look for a sawmill with a dry kiln they may have bricks laying around. Refinery's and pulp mills also use large amounts  of firebrick.



Not to derail the thread, but you just saved me a lot of time searching for suppliers! Im only a couple hours east of spokane. Thanks man!
 
pollinator
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Some related and possibly helpful info. is in this thread:

https://permies.com/t/60434/local-source-refractory
 
mark tompkins
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thomas rubino,

I am from southern alberta, originally from Lethbridge, but now located 30 minutes approx south of Brooks.  Canadian pricing for this kind of stuff is crazy expensive.   The suggestion for a supplier close to Spokane is great info, thanks very much.  I travel to the coast every year, to visit my daughter, and it won't be far out of my way.  I prefer the route through the US, because it feels more free.  This year, I may take the south route through Great Falls, and maybe even swing by Wheaton Labs.

Mark
 
mark tompkins
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I've been also looking at ceramic microspheres as a possible additive to refractory to enhance the performance of those areas which are exposed to high temperatures.  The batch box rocket stove is supposed to have an insulated firebox, I believe.  It would be interesting to investigate the impact of ceramic microspheres as a cement additive painted on layer to the fire exposed surfaces.  Eagle coatings is a Canadian company using the microspheres to solve heating and cooling problems.  There are others.  For example, the Denver airport allegedly had a 30 % odd energy bill reduction resulting from the application of paint containing insulating ceramic microspheres.  This technology seems to be largely flying under the radar at the moment.  One problem is that it requires a different analysis in order to understand how the technology works.  R value doesn't appear to be relevant to the analysis of this technology.  

Has anyone tried to use the ceramic microspheres in their favorite heating appliance?

 
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Any painted on layer inside the firebox or feed tube & burn tunnel will be subject to constant abrasion, and unless it is both strong and tough, and well-adhered to the refractory substrate, it will be scraped off quickly.
 
thomas rubino
rocket scientist
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Mark;  Water glass or sodium silicate painted on creates a high temp hard face .  I used it when I was casting cores out of fireclay and perlite. It is readily available and low cost. Works very well.
 
mark tompkins
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I was thinking to mix ceramic microspheres into refractory, and then creating an initial layer in the firebox mold.  The ceramic microspheres appear to be quite hard.  Here is a link to a 3M product:

https://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Energy-Advanced/Materials/Product/~?N=5002440+7570093

I mean this is really fascinating stuff!!!

http://www.supertherm.net/multicera.htm

thanks for all the ideas and comments!!!  
 
I didn't like the taste of tongue and it didn't like the taste of me. I will now try this tiny ad:
rocket mass heater risers: materials and design eBook
https://permies.com/wiki/188812/rocket-mass-heater-risers-materials
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