new videos
hot off the press!  
    more about rocket
mass heaters here.

more videos from
the PDC here.
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic

Why is getting hired so hard?  RSS feed

 
Kyrt Ryder
Posts: 746
Location: Graham, Washington [Zone 7b, 47.041 Latitude] 41inches average annual rainfall, cool summer drought
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Warning! Whiney rant/vent below.

"We're looking for hard workers who will take the job seriously and work within our guidelines to make our company a better place."

Aaaaand then the most honest, sincere and heartfelt response in the world goes out... one with twenty to sixty minutes of effort put into it...

and nothing. Over and over and over again.
 
Troy Rhodes
Posts: 626
26
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Was this a face to face interview, or a resume in response to an ad somewhere?


finest regards,

troy
 
David Livingston
steward
Posts: 3475
Location: Anjou ,France
163
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
"We're looking for hard workers who will take the job seriously and work within our guidelines to make our company a better place."
Translation- make sure you refer to our guidelines in every response  you make as part of this job process as we are looking for clones failure to do so will result is us ignoring your application
 
Eddie Conna
Posts: 88
Location: Los Angeles for now, Maybe Idaho soon...
tiny house
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I wouldn't spend a ton of time writing a "heartfelt response".

I use a form letter, with a few "blank spaces" where you can personalize the response so it doesn't feel like a form letter.  Always gotten a decent response.

But they say if "cold calling" a 1 to 2% response rate is considered good.  So if 1 or 2 out of a hundred people reply to your inquiry, you're doing good.



 
Andrea Mondine
Posts: 18
Location: NWO-MI; Seeking Refuge in the Mountains of NC
8
books cat dog forest garden toxin-ectomy trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Kyrt!

Most of the time, the 'decision makers' in the hiring process don't ever see your cover letter, which is what I assume you are referring to when you mention your heartfelt response.

Make sure that your resume and cover letter are absolutely flawless regarding grammar and punctuation. Extra spaces and periods have a way of 'hiding' in a formal, blocky document.

You could try adding a new or different format to your resume. A lot of the folks coming into the workforce have been raised on technology, and their resumes don't even closely resemble what a resume looked like in 1980. Of course, I don't know your age, but the point is that you need to stand out.

While I'm not a fan of 'form-letter' type responses, I also feel that an extensive and extremely detailed response will yield only limited results. Hiring managers (or their Human Resource staff) simply don't have the time to thoroughly review a long cover letter, and they will often miss the very essence of what you are so carefully trying to convey in your response.

If you are seeking non-traditional employment or perhaps work with an individual proprietor, it may be better to send a brief introduction with 3-4 KEY points about yourself that might catch their eye, forgoing the traditional cover letter and resume altogether. Always offer to meet with them at their convenience to talk about how you can benefit their organization/cause. 

Keep in mind that there are a LOT of people seeking employment, and even the least demanding jobs often have fierce competition in certain markets.

If you'd like for me to take a peek at a sample of what you are using, I would happily review it for you. I have a large assortment of employment type documents saved from freelancing. I can send you samples of some cover letter ideas that could be more suited to your needs if I have a better idea of what type of employment you are seeking. Just PM me if interested.


Best of luck, and have a great day!!

~Andrea
 
Faye DancingCloud
Posts: 8
Location: Washington, Utah
1
goat
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Kyrt,

What are your skills? What field are you applying in?

For technical jobs, I think the previous response is correct that whoever screens candidates is looking for reference to the company's policies/mission statement in the cover letter.

I also back up that heartfelt is not what these companies are looking for. They're looking for drones. Form letters could be helpful.

I'm currently renewing my search for work as a freelance writer because I would love to turn my situation around. Currently I offer in-home support to a vet with PTSD, and I like it, but I want to take control of my life.

Best of success!
 
David Livingston
steward
Posts: 3475
Location: Anjou ,France
163
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think it helps to try and see what the person is really looking for between the lines rather than what it says they want on the surface
 
Kyrt Ryder
Posts: 746
Location: Graham, Washington [Zone 7b, 47.041 Latitude] 41inches average annual rainfall, cool summer drought
11
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
First, thank you all for the kind support, I really appreciate it. Now to respond to the questions you've asked.

@ Troy: Resume/Application type affair. To date I've *never* been invited to an interview. The only jobs I've actually landed were either 'hire on the spot' [Carnival Work], 'Family Business' or- in the case of a job I was finally blessed to land this morning- hired by phonecall.

@ David: never had a problem following guidelines, though I'm a little disgusted by the number of hiring managers more interested in pointless paper qualifications or trumped up faux experience than people sincerely dedicated to the position offered.

@ Eddie: that's how I finally managed to land the job I finally got accepted into this morning- stop giving a shit about trying to be the right candidate and just mass-fire very simple basic responses to see if anything bites.

@ Andrea: if by 'Cover Letter' you mean 'response to a hiring advertisement' then I find myself wondering if they just randomly put the names of those who applied onto piece of paper to draw out of a hat? The responses I give *do* possess flawless grammar, writing used to be one of my passions.  Extensive and extremely detailed wasn't possible anyway when I had only worked for two companies in my life. As to my age, I'm turning twenty-eight in one week.

I really appreciate the offer to look at my resume. Thank you. I might be PMing you something in a few days.

@ Faye my greatest skill is my commitment to whatever task I set myself to. I'm a quick learner who learns what is expected of me, and then becomes the damned best there is at it, or at least I make that my goal in everything I do. No formal training, primarily self-educated.

@ David perhaps you could provide a few examples of reading between the lines? Saying that doesn't really say anything to me. [By my nature I'm a very straightforward and honest take things at face value sort of guy.]
 
Troy Rhodes
Posts: 626
26
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Most HR departments are swamped with applicants.  Most jobs do not get awarded to the "best" resume.

Depending on the operation (big vs small), most jobs result from a good resume, and knowing somebody inside the operation that will vouch for you.

Good work ethic is surprisingly rare today, and it's expensive to hire somebody and then find out their work ethic is mediocre at best.

Plug in to your network and find out who is hiring. 

If you're interested in a specific job at a specific company,  you're only 2 degrees of separation from somebody that matters that works at that corp.  Work the network and find out who knows who, so they could give -ANY- kind of personal reference.  That gets you to the top of the stack.  Without that your resume drops in value by 80 or 90%.  All the resumes claim great things about the applicant.


If all of that fails, offer to work a two week unpaid internship to demonstrate your amazing work ethic.  That will make you stick out in the pile.

It is worthwhile to read the old book, what color is your parachute.

Have you considered being self employed? 

Name three areas of interest and we will think of 4 or 5 things you could start next week.

If you are as smart and motivated as you come across in your posts, you can make double or triple what an employer thinks you're worth of you find the right gig to be self employed.
 
Kyrt Ryder
Posts: 746
Location: Graham, Washington [Zone 7b, 47.041 Latitude] 41inches average annual rainfall, cool summer drought
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Troy Rhodes wrote:Most HR departments are swamped with applicants.  Most jobs do not get awarded to the "best" resume.

Depending on the operation (big vs small), most jobs result from a good resume, and knowing somebody inside the operation that will vouch for you.

Good work ethic is surprisingly rare today, and it's expensive to hire somebody and then find out their work ethic is mediocre at best.

And traditional hiring selection actually helps sift this?

Plug in to your network and find out who is hiring.

That would require having a network. I never did learn the art of networking, though I've asked a few people [who basically looked at me like I was broken for not understanding how to make these connections and milk them.]

If you're interested in a specific job at a specific company,  you're only 2 degrees of separation from somebody that matters that works at that corp.  Work the network and find out who knows who, so they could give -ANY- kind of personal reference.  That gets you to the top of the stack.  Without that your resume drops in value by 80 or 90%.  All the resumes claim great things about the applicant.

I've never been in the position of actively seeking out work at a specific company as part of a long-term goal, my job searching typically amounts to looking for 'help wanted' ads in every resource I can find and then putting myself out there for them.


If all of that fails, offer to work a two week unpaid internship to demonstrate your amazing work ethic.  That will make you stick out in the pile.

This is an excellent idea, though my instinct tells me there are legal challenges to actually doing this for many companies depending on how they're set up.

It is worthwhile to read the old book, what color is your parachute.
Thanks for the recommendation, if I can make the free time I will do so.

Have you considered being self employed?
Absolutely. I prefer the self-employed environment, but right now I have no capital.

Name three areas of interest and we will think of 4 or 5 things you could start next week.
'Areas of interest'... I have zero clue what sort of profitable interests I might have. Most of my interests have gone by the wayside in favor of Permacultural pursuits and job-hunting. In the long run I want an animal-product-focused multi-species Restoration Agriculture farm, but for the time being I need to build up the capital in order to actually buy the land. [I know land can be rented, that's not something I'm interested in.]

If you are as smart and motivated as you come across in your posts, you can make double or triple what an employer thinks you're worth of you find the right gig to be self employed.
My motivation is boundless and my intellect is decent. If anyone wants to give advice I will give it serious consideration.

Thank you again for your participation in this conversation
 
Troy Rhodes
Posts: 626
26
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Kyrt Ryder wrote:
Troy Rhodes wrote:Most HR departments are swamped with applicants.  Most jobs do not get awarded to the "best" resume.

Depending on the operation (big vs small), most jobs result from a good resume, and knowing somebody inside the operation that will vouch for you.

Good work ethic is surprisingly rare today, and it's expensive to hire somebody and then find out their work ethic is mediocre at best.

And traditional hiring selection actually helps sift this?

Plug in to your network and find out who is hiring.

That would require having a network. I never did learn the art of networking, though I've asked a few people [who basically looked at me like I was broken for not understanding how to make these connections and milk them.]


I would add a little nuance to your assessment.  Let's say you get to know 10 people pretty well, and another 10 people more than just saying hi.  In whatever context this happens, those 10-20 people that you know pretty well, those people will become your homies, if you let them.  This might be people you work with.  This might be people in your church.  School roommates, some shared hobby group, the context almost doesn't matter.  Once you get to know people at more than the superficial level, it is almost inevitable that you begin to care about them, and they begin to care about you.  Once that happens, you are most definitely not "milking' the network.  Your 10-20 homies are legitimately concerned about your unemployed status and will call in favors to get you an interview with that personal recommendation edge.

Of course, it's a double edged sword, if you don't get interested and involved in their lives, they won't do shit for you either.  It's never that cut and dried, but it illustrates the point.  These days it's fashionable to call that "social capital".  It's not money, but it definitely has value.

If you're interested in a specific job at a specific company,  you're only 2 degrees of separation from somebody that matters that works at that corp.  Work the network and find out who knows who, so they could give -ANY- kind of personal reference.  That gets you to the top of the stack.  Without that your resume drops in value by 80 or 90%.  All the resumes claim great things about the applicant.

I've never been in the position of actively seeking out work at a specific company as part of a long-term goal, my job searching typically amounts to looking for 'help wanted' ads in every resource I can find and then putting myself out there for them.


Join the big crowd.  One of the ideas in "What Color Is Your Parachute" is that most people just want a job.  If company XYZ is hiring, you'll work for them and do a nice job.  Your resume says so.  Let's say you wanted to be a machinest (I wanted that at one point.)  And let's say apprentice machinists positions were pretty rare within 100 miles of me.  But there was one company that had one or two slots that might open up.  They made chain hoists.  Columbus McKinnon.  I found out how long they'd been in that location, who sat on the board, how much they had grown, who their main competitors were, etc etc etc etc.  Everything I could scratch together about their current business model and their plan for the next 5 years.  Problems they've encountered, etc etc etc.  I shocked the pants off the guy who interviewed me and got an offer.  Nobody had EVER come through an interview knowing so much about their operation.  Guess why I got noticed...because I wasn't just another guy looking for some job.


If all of that fails, offer to work a two week unpaid internship to demonstrate your amazing work ethic.  That will make you stick out in the pile.

This is an excellent idea, though my instinct tells me there are legal challenges to actually doing this for many companies depending on how they're set up.



HR might very well turn you down stone cold on the unpaid internship because of the legal challenges you refer to.  Doesn't matter, you got noticed.



It is worthwhile to read the old book, what color is your parachute.
Thanks for the recommendation, if I can make the free time I will do so.

Have you considered being self employed?
Absolutely. I prefer the self-employed environment, but right now I have no capital.

Name three areas of interest and we will think of 4 or 5 things you could start next week.
'Areas of interest'... I have zero clue what sort of profitable interests I might have. Most of my interests have gone by the wayside in favor of Permacultural pursuits and job-hunting. In the long run I want an animal-product-focused multi-species Restoration Agriculture farm, but for the time being I need to build up the capital in order to actually buy the land. [I know land can be rented, that's not something I'm interested in.]



I'm just going to give you one example of thinking outside the box, and then throwing the box away.

As a group, farmers are getting old in a hurry.  It's not very sexy, and lots of farmer's kids really really don't want to run the farm.  I would bet you a steak dinner, there is a farmer withing 50 miles of you that is facing a dilemma.  He can't get dependable help, and his kids all moved to the city and have lives that have nothing to do with the farm.  If the right eager person showed up and asked the right questions, you could easily end up with a paying position on a farm.  Is it straight up permaculture?  Probably not.  Go watch all of Gabe Brown's youtube videos about broad scale, like so:



Your pitch might be, you have a lot of ideas about how to farm, but no practical experience.  I want to learn farming so bad, I'll be your best farm hand ever.  You will never find a more dependable farm hand.  And I'm sure you know who's looking for someone to buy or manage their farm, and that's my dream job five years down the road. 

I can assure you, that is not the typical offer a farmer gets from a potential farm hand.

Or maybe it's a landscape company, where you can show them how to "green" their image with permaculture....

If you are as smart and motivated as you come across in your posts, you can make double or triple what an employer thinks you're worth of you find the right gig to be self employed.
My motivation is boundless and my intellect is decent. If anyone wants to give advice I will give it serious consideration.

Thank you again for your participation in this conversation
 
Tyler Ludens
pollinator
Posts: 9740
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
180
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I second the advice to attempt self-employment.  One of the best posters here on permies about self-employment is Dale Hodgins, who is successful simply because he shows up and actually does the job, when his competition can not, for some reason, bother to show up and actually do the job.  I've been self-employed for 20 years.  I recommend it.  It beats working to make someone else rich.


I did not start my business with any capital to speak of.  I used the tools I had as an employed person.

 
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, it's a tiny ad:
Greenhouse 8" Rocket Mass Heater Plans
https://permies.com/t/64464/digital-market/digital-market/Greenhouse-Rocket-Mass-Heater-Plans
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!