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Tricky Identification - Fallen tree  RSS feed

 
garden master
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Location: SW Missouri
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I have a tricky one today... Fallen tree, way down in my pasture. I think it's a recent fall (last two weeks or so) I can't swear to it. I want to know what the species is so I can inoculate it with mushroom spores and have edibles growing on it. What type of mushroom will grow best is based on what species it is (as well as the other factors, but I know those.) There are no fungi of any sort showing right now, both why I think it's recent, and why I want to inoculate it soon.

Zone 6 a or b (right on the line) southern Missouri, tall tree, uncertain of exact height, over 30 feet. Pics taken Nov 15, which is interesting, as the dried leaves are clinging to it, despite almost all the trees in the area being bare already. Near a seasonal creek, on a rocky outcrop area, I think, probably had shallow soil. North slope, has been getting straight line windstorms from the north and west lately. Fall points South east.

Lanceolate leaves, about 3 inches long, held in clusters of about 10 leaves that look like they may hook at the base (might be wrong on that, they are pretty dry and I can't look at them close.) Definitely not hooking together in lines like walnut leaves do. I can say pretty certainly that it's not walnut (leaves are attached wrong, and they are bare) American persimmon (wrong bark, and they are bare) osage orange (no thorns) maple (wrong leaf shape and they are bare) I thought I could rule out oak due to leaf shape, but have learned some oaks have lanceolate leaves, so not ruling it out. The heartwood at the break looked orangey to me, not sure exactly. I have not gone back to see if there were any nuts on the ground in the area, didn't think to look. I took a video, but it was a silly one, not sure how clear it is, I was showing the little copse to a friend. I can post it if wanted, or PM it. I don't think it's an odd species, I walked the property with a Dept of Ag guy when I bought the land, he was rattling off all kinds of species names of every plant we went by, and I don't recall him saying any trees that were odd. I was taking a few notes, but he told me probably 150 types, and walked fast and I was trying to keep up through 5 foot deep grass, if I recall 80 of them, I'll be proud of myself :)

Large pictures, apologies, trying to keep the cruddy cell phone shots as clear as I can.
The broken stump


The branch pattern


Focused in on the last picture so you can see how the leaves are hanging


I colorized this one so you can see what I was trying to get, the way the leaves are clustered. (the orig is on photobucket, GardensInMyMind)


One leaf cluster broken off


Any clues? I want mushrooms on it!! :D

 
pollinator
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Most trees don't just fall down even in a gale . So why did this one tumble ? If it's due to a fungal infection then you could be wasting your time and money trying to inoculate wood already teeming with spores .

David

I live in Europe so my tree ID  would be suspect
 
Pearl Sutton
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Good question! No clue!! If the rock levels are what I suspect they are, it's shallow rooted, and the rain over the summer was very scanty, may have stressed it enough. There seems to have been a LOT of local tree damage lately, dropping a lot of broken branches or just flat snapping off like this one did. The falls tend to happen when it's windy, but what damages it to the point it will fall? No idea. None of it in the area I have looked at was visually fungused, but that's not a serious study. I have just seen a lot of brittle breakage. It will be at least several years before I get that far down in the pasture to do any soil improvement, this is only the second time I have even walked that far down, the grass has been hard to get through, and I have been busy.When I get down there, I'll be working on water retention, soil level raise and soil improvement.
 
pollinator
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What part of the world are you in? Are the leaves oval or lobed?
 
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Location: Brighton, Michigan
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Taking a shot here since can't see anything but look up Hackberry.
 
Ken W Wilson
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I think it could be water oak, but I can't tell the shape of the leaves very well on my phone.

Also I've seen healthy water oaks blow over. They don't seem to have a strong tap root. It was a bad storm though.


 
Ken W Wilson
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Ok. I had to look up lanceolate. Not water oak. Maybe willow oak? I've never seed a mature tree so don't know. Bark looks like oak to me. Specific cation would help. I'm from southwestern MO. I don't think willow oak is indiginous here. I believe it is in southeastern MO.

It could be hackberry. The bark doesnt quite look like the hackberries on the farm I grew up on.
 
Pearl Sutton
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Hackberry: leaves grow wrong. More bunched, rather that alternate. Good guess, I hadn't checked that one.
Water oak: Leaves shaped wrong, definitely lanceolate, no knobbing or lobing. Another good guess though :)
Keep them coming!! Appreciate all input!!


Weather is bad today or I'd go look at it again. Way too cold and wet to go through that much uncut for years pasture. It will be an easy trek once it's been cut at least once, but right now it's work. I'll probably go back down there on Monday when this storm is over.
 
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I can't say for sure because the shape of the leaves is hard to see in the photos, but I think it's a Shingle Oak. The trees are very similar to others in the red/black oak group in growth form and bark, but have no lobes on their leaves at all.
 
Ken W Wilson
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I've never seen shingle oak, but that could be right. I believe some people says it's the preferred oak for Grifola frondosa, hen of the woods.
 
Pearl Sutton
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Willow oak: leaves attached wrong.
Shingle oak: We may have a winner!! That's definitely closest I have seen! I'll look it up better, see how to differentiate it, and check those factors on Monday :)
 
Pearl Sutton
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Went and looked again. Definitely oak, can see the grain in the wood at the break. Probably shingle oak, definitely lanceolate leaves.

Points awarded to Richard Kastanie!!

I looked at how it broke, looks like old lightning scar or similar, healed long ago, weakened it at the base.


The date of fall that I said is wrong, there was a small ice storm last winter, that's a better guess. It landed on some small Osage Orange trees, that still resent it, but they have put up shoots/suckers that look to me to be about a growing season old.

 
Thank you all who played!!
:D
I curtsy nicely at you all :)
Pearl
 
Richard Kastanie
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The growth on the osage-oranges does suggest its been fallen for over a year, but I'd imagine it would have fallen during the growing season when it was in full leaf, considering the leaves clinging onto so many of the twigs in the picture. Oak do sometimes hold some brown leaves on them into the winter, but they aren't usually clinging all that tight. A tree (or limb) that falls when the tree is in full leaf often has dead leaves clinging to it for a couple of years, I've noticed that with many oaks in particular.
 
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