• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nancy Reading
  • Carla Burke
  • r ranson
  • John F Dean
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • Jay Angler
  • Liv Smith
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Maieshe Ljin

What is the best way to stabilize a muddy area

 
Posts: 12
2
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My Property is getting super muddy, just got my van stuck. It periodically gets really muddy in the spring. I'm interested in stabilizing the soil a bit in the area around where I drive and park the cars. The soil is a very saturated loam / clay that just slides all around. I'm wondering if anyone has recommendations on the best way to do this. Wood chips, Crushed Stone, Geo textural fabric, Permeable Pavers?
 
steward
Posts: 21553
Location: Pacific Northwest
12040
11
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Gravel might help. We have really wet soils here, but where the gravel driveway is, or where the soil is really gravely (I have gravelly loam soil, and some areas are like 40% gravel!), the ground does not get soft and mushy, while right next to it, the ground is so soft that a car would get stuck in the mud.

But, that's the only bit of knowledge i have. Hopefully someone else will chime in with more expert knowledge!

Also, you might find this thread useful: https://permies.com/t/53370/DIY-Dirt-Road-maintenance-improvement
 
steward
Posts: 16058
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4272
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I don't know if it is available where you live though, "roadbase" is caliche that is basically fine crushed limestone.  When it dries it forms a hard surface.

When you have it delivered, the driver can stagger the dumps so it will be able to be spread out evenly over the area.
 
pollinator
Posts: 5347
Location: Bendigo , Australia
477
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This is an area of expertise for myself.
Basically if you study road building you will see what to do.

I recommend in Australia the following=
Geo fabric is great in a lot of cases but it not low priced
First layer of rock should be 40mm crushed rock, with no fines in it. Crushed rock with fines is called Crushed rock 40mm minus.
When its settled a bit , say 12 months add another layer of 20mm minus, crushed rock and out a roller or wackier over it.
This should be perfect.
A couple of extra tips;
Any decent truck driver should be able to spread the rock by fitting chains to the tailgate to limit how far the tail gate opens, then as he lifts the tipper and reverses backwards the rock will spread out and he has a solid surface to travel over.
If he lifts the load whilst sitting on sloppy mud, he may get bogged.

Also, if you are building  anything, I suggest you get the 40mm laid first, then have the builders drive over it to attend to the construction and they will help compact it, not get bogged on the site and they will love you.
Then when its finished spread the 20mm.

The bigger rock will settle into the mud and create a stable base for the 20mm minus.
If you apply the 20mm minus first the mud and water will come through it and become a boggy mess again.
 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5347
Location: Bendigo , Australia
477
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The next thing is to create drains around the area to divert surface water away from the edges and prevent water infiltration to the base level of the area you are working on.
It does not need to be done at the start, unless its very wet in your area.
 
Dereck Downey
Posts: 12
2
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

John C Daley wrote:This is an area of expertise for myself.
Basically if you study road building you will see what to do.

I recommend in Australia the following=
Geo fabric is great in a lot of cases but it not low priced
First layer of rock should be 40mm crushed rock, with no fines in it. Crushed rock with fines is called Crushed rock 40mm minus.
When its settled a bit , say 12 months add another layer of 20mm minus, crushed rock and out a roller or wackier over it.
This should be perfect.
A couple of extra tips;
Any decent truck driver should be able to spread the rock by fitting chains to the tailgate to limit how far the tail gate opens, then as he lifts the tipper and reverses backwards the rock will spread out and he has a solid surface to travel over.
If he lifts the load whilst sitting on sloppy mud, he may get bogged.

Also, if you are building  anything, I suggest you get the 40mm laid first, then have the builders drive over it to attend to the construction and they will help compact it, not get bogged on the site and they will love you.
Then when its finished spread the 20mm.

The bigger rock will settle into the mud and create a stable base for the 20mm minus.
If you apply the 20mm minus first the mud and water will come through it and become a boggy mess again.



I't a fairy small area, maybe 600 square feet in the top corner of the property where I park the car. As well as the entrance area where you pull the car in. The reverse dump may work, but it might clip some of the trees toward the entrance. it's also possible that I borrow someones tractor ( with a bucket ) and use that to spread the stone. All else fails can do it with a wheelbarrow. I'm also fascinated with this Geo Fabric but maybe that's overkill, would rather spend a little extra and do it right  . . .
 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5347
Location: Bendigo , Australia
477
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
40mm material is hard to move, its lumpy. A grader blade may work.
Since the area is at the top of the property, it sounds like a drain uphill may also help a lot.
 
Posts: 12
1
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
First thing you have to do is get the water out of it. Then you dry it out. Take your sod off first six inches don't use this for fill. Then take your dirt out mix it 5050 with rock put it back in so it's not the lowest spot create a path for the water to go where you want it. Put your sod back on.
 
Posts: 27
1
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
2025 Feasibility for Colorado 2soil types:
I'm going to be trying shredded hemp.
I found a professional amendment product too
There are several road products, at least one involves NATURAL ingredients I think I saw coir(shredded coconut shells). Growers use coir a lot for plants.

As having access to a seldom-wanted big ol' heap of slash, I like that idea really really well
Our local slash heap gets chipped by city personnel pretty often 💛💛💛
So there's larger castaway wood stuff, and heaps of chips

I also found a honeycomb grid product that's going to make a big difference too for pretty cheap. 💸
Graders and rocks just end up with sinking rocks then you buy more rocks. . .

I saw a post in Costilla County CO, newcomers had pd $8000 for rocks, only to still be driving on substandard mud and summer dried baked ruts

As working for geotechnical engineers once, caliche was the number one go-to substrate for miles and miles and miles of highway, always there in the reports I typed up
 
Bever Branson
Posts: 27
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Rhino Snot product...
 
Posts: 43
Location: Klamath-Siskiyou CA
4
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am experimenting with 'top dress' charcoal or (if i'm diligent) biochar, a light half inch or so at a time so that it works into the surface in/around existing sparse grass cover. Theory or hope is that it helps create a much sturdier, chunkier turf mat over time that is easily walkable if not drivable.
 
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants. And a tiny ads:
turnkey permaculture paradise for zero monies
https://permies.com/t/267198/turnkey-permaculture-paradise-monies
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic