Win a copy of Compost Teas for the Organic Grower this week in the Composting forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
  • Joseph Lofthouse
stewards:
  • Mike Jay
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Devaka Cooray
garden masters:
  • Steve Thorn
  • Dave Burton
  • Dan Boone
gardeners:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Mandy Launchbury-Rainey
  • Mike Barkley

Kazahkstan apples?

 
Posts: 102
Location: Ontario zone 4b
7
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I  am going to recieve 100 seeds of 4 open pollinated serveseii varieties from kazakhstan through a breeding program in NY stare and was curious if anyone has done the same and have grown apples that are bearing fruit ?
 
Posts: 2
1
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
No, but I am curious about what this program is.

edit: nevermind, Google did not fail me and I found it
 
pollinator
Posts: 378
Location: Montana
97
forest garden trees
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I did this in 2004. I planted them on my then new 8 acre lot, they haven't produced apples quite yet, but some may be getting close. They would have been faster planted most places. When I did it I also saved some seed from some feral apples about another 25 seeds and planted those as well. I had about 120 plants to start with. Then I have been slowly loosing them over the years, mainly to pocket gopher attacks.

I intended to graft them onto either mature trees, or fast rootstock to get something sooner, but never got it done.
 
Posts: 353
Location: SW PA USA zone 6a altitude 1188ft
4
trees
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I flunked google.

I found scions for every apple I could think of, and lots of variations of common apples. I found 5 different MacIntosh apples. I found 5 different Rome apples. I found ancient varieties of apples that were grown 100 years ago, like Esopus Spitzenurg, Wagener, and Ben Davis. I found new varieties like Honeycrisp. I found scions for rootstocks like M.111, M.9, and M.7.... What does one do with a scion of a rootstock? I found a 2005 version of the catalog which explains which are seeds and which are scions, that useless info isn't in the 2018 catalog version. I found many pages for seeds and scions of serveseii apples and I found multiple item numbers for Niedzwetzkyana scions on page 61, why so many and why no explanation of why so many.

I find this is awesome, such a huge resource.

But looking thru all those pages of what I think are apples, mostly crab apples from everywhere on the earth, but you can't figure out what you get, how many does 589287, the niedzwetzkyana apple, get you. If you need say 6, there's no place on the order page to put the quantity. But then you might get 6 packs of 25. I guess that as you pick up some experience you'll learn a little of what all that variety is.

But my first problem, nowhere in the 84 pages do I see a quantity of 100 seeds of 4 different serveseii apples. But I did find the niedzwetzkyana apple which I think I'd rather have than a 100 of 4 different unknown apple varieties. Or; was my first problem that the serveseii apples you guys discuss; aren't the many pages of free serveseii apples that I found.

edit:

I mentioned about the use of a rootstock scion. I finally realized that last spring when I grafted a piece of M.7 to a M.111 that I was using a scion of M.7. But I think it's a truism that every graft needs one rootstock.

By the way; here's the cherry catalog.
 
William Schlegel
pollinator
Posts: 378
Location: Montana
97
forest garden trees
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

John Duda wrote:I flunked google.

I found scions for every apple I could think of, and lots of variations of common apples. I found 5 different MacIntosh apples. I found 5 different Rome apples. I found ancient varieties of apples that were grown 100 years ago, like Esopus Spitzenurg, Wagener, and Ben Davis. I found new varieties like Honeycrisp. I found scions for rootstocks like M.111, M.9, and M.7.... What does one do with a scion of a rootstock? I found a 2005 version of the catalog which explains which are seeds and which are scions, that useless info isn't in the 2018 catalog version. I found many pages for seeds and scions of serveseii apples and I found multiple item numbers for Niedzwetzkyana scions on page 61, why so many and why no explanation of why so many.

I find this is awesome, such a huge resource.

But looking thru all those pages of what I think are apples, mostly crab apples from everywhere on the earth, but you can't figure out what you get, how many does 589287, the niedzwetzkyana apple, get you. If you need say 6, there's no place on the order page to put the quantity. But then you might get 6 packs of 25. I guess that as you pick up some experience you'll learn a little of what all that variety is.

But my first problem, nowhere in the 84 pages do I see a quantity of 100 seeds of 4 different serveseii apples. But I did find the niedzwetzkyana apple which I think I'd rather have than a 100 of 4 different unknown apple varieties. Or; was my first problem that the serveseii apples you guys discuss; aren't the many pages of free serveseii apples that I found.

edit:

I mentioned about the use of a rootstock scion. I finally realized that last spring when I grafted a piece of M.7 to a M.111 that I was using a scion of M.7. But I think it's a truism that every graft needs one rootstock.

By the way; here's the cherry catalog.



Back in 2002, I read an article online in National Geographic. In the article Phil Forsline the then director of the Apple unit of the ARS GRIN program offered anyone interested 100 seeds, which turned out to be 4 seed packets of 25 seeds. So I emailed him and asked. He asked me what my latitude was which I looked up on wikipedia or some such if we had wikipedia back then, then he mailed me the seeds with detailed instructions on how to get them to germinate. So the trick is to send someone an email and ask about it. https://www.ars.usda.gov/northeast-area/geneva-ny/
 
John Indaburgh
Posts: 353
Location: SW PA USA zone 6a altitude 1188ft
4
trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
William

I found this search page with a link to an online order link which includes a cart like online shopping everywhere on the internet. But the 2018 catalog still has some useful capabilities. I find it interesting to just scroll over the 80+ pages looking for hidden nuggets that I'd never think of searching for.

I've ordered and found some gems that I can't resist. Like Niedzwetzkyana, Redfield and Roberts Crab. Niedzwetzkyana is the Kazakhstan apple with red flesh that was used for several apple breeders to develop the red flesh apples line RedField, Pink Pearl and others. Redfield is a merger of Wolf River and Niedzwetzkyana. Pink Pearl was developed using an apple called Surprise and the same Niedzwetzkyana apple again. Roberts Crab is another red fleshed 2 1/4 inch crab apple. I'd like to cross the Niedzwetzkyana with a juicy apple like McIntosh, or maybe something bigger and just as juicy to get maybe a red dessert apple.

Myself I think I'd be more interested in Antonovka seed than the serveseii  ? variety.

If you're looking for nothing but detailed info on a specific apple there's a wealth of info on any variety you click on. You do need to use a horizontal scroll bar to read it tho. That's where I got the size of the apple above.
 
Tell me how it all turns out. Here is a tiny ad:
177 hours of video: the 2017 Permaculture Design Course and Appropriate Technology Course
https://permies.com/wiki/65386/hours-video-Permaculture-Design-Technology
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!