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First time building a Kenya Top Bar Hive

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Hey guys, so it's my first time caring for bees and I'm trying to build a kenya top bar hive. From what I see, the specs/measurements are pretty flexible. Is this specific to the KTB? Because I was always under the impression that a human-built beehive had to be certain very exact measurements with very precise construction. And now I see these videos of people just slapping them together with whatever's laying around XD
So my boards are 1" thick x 42" long x 6" wide. From my understanding I need 12" wide boards instead (for the sides). Can I just brace two together? How tight does it need to be? I have done a trial one...it looks pretty ugly

there is a tiny sliver of a gap where they meet. Would this matter? Let me know if I should add pics.

Almond Thompson

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Following plans here:Kenya Top Bar Hive
and this video:

Pearl Sutton

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There are two styles of doing almost anything: follow really precisely done directions, and do it the way it makes sense to you with what you have. Some folks are more comfortable with exact measurements that's why people post those directions. I'm a do it with what I have type. One of my sisters says I'm constitutionally unable to follow a recipe :D I simply don't feel the need to. I build things that way too.

A bee hive, of any sort, the only main measurements that matter is if you are using premade frames, they need to fit in it. Other than that, the bees don't care. If you want something lovely looking, make it look good, otherwise, make it structural enough to not fall apart in a storm.

There ARE no hard and fast rules, but a lot of people freak out if not given explicit directions.

And incidentally, bees will fill in cracks if they don't want them. They do want ventilation holes. A lot of folks drill a line of holes and let the bees deal with it from there. They know what they want.

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Almond Thompson

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I gotcha! I am the same way as long as I have an IDEA of the goalposts...I'm just worried about killing them. My mom is convinced if I make this wrong the hive will die and we'll have a tiny mass funeral on our hands. I kind of feel like the bees won't move in if they don't think it's suitable in the first place. How fragile are the bees? Our winters are pretty cold and wet...

Pearl Sutton

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if you are cold and wet there, insulate the hive well, and make sure it has good water shedding.

Basically, a bee hive is a house. Look at the house construction around you, what works in that climate? If you need good insulation in your house the bees need good too. If it rains a lot, you might consider a shed roof type thing above them to shed off the excess. I'd leave several feet of space between the hive and the roof, both so the bees are not overheated in summer, and so you can work with it.

Think about what a bee wants, warm in winter cool in summer, dry, safe, easy to defend. That's what they want. The rest is construction details :D

So how tough are bees... they stay in if it's cold. If you have a lot of cold be SURE to leave them enough honey to last them until there is a lot of flowers blooming! That's their food!! And it takes more than the first blooms to have enough to eat.

If they have vent holes, they'll close them off for winter and open them in summer. I'm trying to think if we have a good thread on the specifics that help them here. (like how big of vent holes, placed where, how to make the entrance so the bees can fight off wasps, etc) I'll look a bit later, I just came in grubby and need to shower and eat.

Pearl Sutton

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Ok. Thought about it a bit. I'd vote:
watch the video for placement of holes etc in that specific design
And read as much as you can of these threads here:

Horizontal Hives in Canada
Dr Leo Sharashkin, who is one of the participants in that thread, wrote a very good book on beekeeping in the cold (I was one of the people who reviewed it when he came here for a giveaway! Awesome book!) his website https://horizontalhive.com/ is an excellent resource for beehives in general. Well worth digging through it.

What type of hive would be best for Sheer Total and Utter Neglect? Lot of neat info about what makes bees survive or not in different conditions. Lots of excellent talk in there. Long thread, goes for many pages.

:D

Jay Angler

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I live on the Pacific Wet Coast in BC. I've wanted bees for years, but they're *very* hard to keep alive and healthy in this ecosystem.

So things I've gleaned from people who keep bees around me:
1. Yes - bees and wasps don't play nice together, so if your wasp population is high in an area, find another spot. (That was my first problem. Wasps keep caterpillars under control, particularly cabbage whites, so I have to wait until I've got another spot.)
2. Morning sun is good.
3. The thicker the wood of your hive, the better. At least all the bits you won't have to lift with any regularity. They normally nest in hollow trees - nice thick wood! Depending on your ecosystem, thicker wood on the north side.
4. Don't just listen to the experts - they insist top bar hives won't work in our area, but the Latham hives as currently built, sure aren't working!
5. Harvest honey at the beginning or middle of summer when there's tons of food around or starting to bloom. Leave the rest for them for the winter.
6. Plant before you buy/build. Plant for *all* seasons. Learn to love dandelions (one of the best bee foods) and learn which veggie flowers bees like because it doesn't just have to be ornamentals. (They also adore raspberry flowers -mine bloom a second time in the fall and I always let the plants bloom just to feed the bees.)
7. They're your employees, not your slaves!
8. If you can catch wild honey bees, they'll be much better in your ecosystem than buying commercial ones which are often imported and could easily be carrying diseases. That means you need to build several "trap" devices (essentially small/light versions of what you're building so the frames are compatible and you can move the bees over easily.)
9. Read up on how to seal cracks in the hive that mites could hide in. I think I read somewhere that replacing the bottom of some hives with fine mesh that mites fall through but wasps can't get through is good in warm weather - that's *really* old memory, so more research needed, but I recall the bottom had a hinged winter cover???

I don't know if any of this will help... good luck with your build!

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Almond Thompson

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awesome!!! Thank you guys! I will try to follow up with a finished build pic <3
Oh one more thing-if I just rub it with beeswax and a little lemongrass could I just put it out and see if any move in instead of trapping them? Is that a thing?

Carla Burke

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Jay's #5 is part of my plan (my first hive is in progress, with the bees happily working at building their dream home in the Layens hive I bought). Harvesting in the fall takes guesswork - I'd rather not have to feed my bees something I know would 'bee' less beneficial to them than their own honey. So, I'll leave it all to them, and thoroughly enjoy their leftovers, next spring.

I've spent the last couple years so worried I'd 'do it wrong', that I was frozen with indecision and self doubt - what a ridiculous waste of time. They know, as Pearl said, what they need, and how to make it happen. They need a good solid, heavy box. I need it to be level and well placed, with solid bars, so I can go out a couple times per year, without too much struggle, to check on them, and hopefully harvest their leftovers. We hoominz tend to overcomplicate matters, far too much.

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Pearl Sutton

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Almond Thompson wrote:g-if I just rub it with beeswax and a little lemongrass could I just put it out and see if any move in instead of trapping them? Is that a thing?

It takes a swarm with a queen to fill a hive, and catching random bees won't get a queen, they don't go out. IF there's an actual swarming going on, yeah, they might move in, but doing it randomly, odds are high random bees or wasps will move in.
So no, not a thing unless you KNOW your neighbor's hives are swarming.

Jay Angler

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Pearl Sutton wrote:

Almond Thompson wrote:g-if I just rub it with beeswax and a little lemongrass could I just put it out and see if any move in instead of trapping them? Is that a thing?

It takes a swarm with a queen to fill a hive, and catching random bees won't get a queen, they don't go out. IF there's an actual swarming going on, yeah, they might move in, but doing it randomly, odds are high random bees or wasps will move in.
So no, not a thing unless you KNOW your neighbor's hives are swarming.

I've read that most bees that swarm will be looking higher up than the height that your big hive will be at, so it's unlikely, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't leave it open like that on the off-chance.

I once saw a bee swarm in my field - what a beautiful and incredible sight and sound! They crossed my field then went through the forest and I lost sight of them. I hope they found a good home.

The trap is not a "trap" like a mouse trap or anything. It's just a wooden box with beeswax smell inside and a couple of bars to start building on and a hole for them to enter. The difference is that it's designed to be mounted in a tree at least 10 or so feet up where bees are more likely to spot it. There is at least one good video on the internet about that process, but I watched it at least 2 years ago, so I have not clue where to find it now.

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Pearl Sutton

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And wasps are attracted to some smells too, don't know about lemongrass in particular, but other herbal oils are definitely interesting to them.
Bees and wasps don't get along, if bees are looking for a place and it has wasps, I doubt they will try to move in

Almond Thompson

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Thanks Pearl and Jay! I actually just found a wild swarm a couple of weeks ago so I know there are some out there.
So here are some progress pix...

DSCN3035.JPG

Almond Thompson

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Some more pics-is it too narrow?

DSCN3036.JPG

DSCN3037.JPG

Another shot of the inside. This is a bit of a ledge, will this encourage mites?

DSCN3038.JPG

A gap in the bottom-okay to leave or should I fill in?

DSCN3039.JPG

Along the side. Hammer for vague reference.

DSCN3040.JPG

Pearl Sutton

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Nice work!!! :D

Almond Thompson

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Thank you!!! The gaps are not a problem?

Staff note (Pearl Sutton) :

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Pearl Sutton

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Narrow: not sure what width that type is supposed to be, not sure of why the shape is that way.
Shaggy: looks ok
Ledge: no answer from me, don't know
Crack in bottom: fill it in
Side: looks good, hi hammer!
Bottom: put a piece of wood in there.

:D

Carla Burke

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My only concern with that narrow width at the bottom, is your climate. I don't know where you are, but the Kenyan's narrower bottom is generally intended for warmer climates. But, as it gets cold, the bees will move up in the hive (because heat rises, so do they). The thing that will become important, as the temps drop, is to give them some extra insulation. I believe the narrower bottom helps cool the hive a bit more, in summer's heat. I also think Mike Barkley, if he's available, could likely give some great advice, on this.

Almond Thompson

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Carla: The inside width at bottom is about 4''. At top, about 14''. Insulation, as in piling grass clippings around the bottom during cold months? I'm in the ne usa.
Thanks, Pearl!

Carla Burke

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I think the depth might be more important than the width? But, rather than putting stuff on the bottom, inside, it might be more effective to just put a wind block of some sort around it. I'm new to this, too, so grain of salt, lol. I'm just pretty sure I read somewhere (

??) that the Kenyan is built for hotter climes. I'm in Central Missouri, so we have both extremes of temperature, going as low as -20°F for a couple weeks, at one point, in February of '21, to 110°F for a couple weeks at a time, in summer - neither temp is including wind chill or humidity. So, I went with the Layens hive, to be on the safe side.

Mike Barkley

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I have minimal knowledge of Kenyan top bar hives so take these words with a grain of salt. It's hard to tell from the pix but the bottom of the hive looks narrower than normal. I don't think that would prevent bees from living there. For example, not every hollow tree in the wild is the exact perfect dimension & bees often choose hollow trees. Their main requirements are a temperature they can survive & staying dry.

Father Langstroth (he was a priest) studied bees for a long time before he designed his style of box that is still in common use. As I recall the dimension he determined was most critical is the spacing between the foundation (frames). It allows enough room for them to move around & work but not too much extra to heat or cool. Bee brood needs to be maintained at an exact temp to survive & that dimension helps them achieve that.

The bees will plug the small gaps with propolis to keep water out but a little tighter construction could save them some effort. The larger hole in the bottom would concern me more. That's a rather large hole for a young colony to defend from mice & other pests. It might be ok for ventilation in summer but I'd cover it with a screen.

I suspect the ledge will be more of an issue with hive beetles than varroa mites. The varroa attach themselves to the bees but the beetles run around & hide in any crack or crevice the bees can't reach. That ledge provides extra safety for them. I think it would become a gathering place for beetles plus odd bits of dirt, propolis, & dead bees too. I would at least add a strip of wood that fills the ledge up. Then it would be just some more cracks for the bees to propolize. A crack is not a huge problem. A hive beetle infestation is.

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Almond Thompson

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Hey hey! here's more progress pix and questions....lots of questions...I've seen pix and videos of all different variations
This is helpful too! (KTBH at

DSCN3041.JPG

Most of the top bars made. Are those cracks ok or do they need to be a tight fit?

DSCN3042.JPG

A ledge on the top-do I need to add a horizontal piece to keep the bars steady or is loose ok?

DSCN3043.JPG

side vie of a bar-should I chisel out a little piece on the sides of the bars so they rest sturdier on the side?

DSCN3044.JPG

do the bars need to be framed or can they go just like so? comb guide optional? for the comb guide could I cut a groove or does it need to be protruding?

Almond Thompson

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(KTB at 23:23, a wider bottom type tho)
I love the idea of painting it so the bees can recognize their home!

Almond Thompson

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Anybody have any thoughts about the bars?

Mike Barkley

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Comb guides are normally protruding. Typically with a beeswax bead along them. I think hive beetles would gather in grooves.

Small gaps between frames is normal. It helps with airflow, it gives bees room to move around, & minimizes frames getting stuck together with propolis. To me it looks like an even larger gap would be a good idea.

As long as the top bars are reasonably stable adding notches doesn't seem necessary. The bees will "glue" them to the hive body.

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Almond Thompson

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Awesome thank you! For the comb guide does it have to be angled or can it be round, like a dowel glued on?
I think I may notch the bars, they are pretty slidey. Or maybe it needs a frame around the whole outer edge to keep them steady?

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Rather than notch the frames I would plane the hive side pieces level so that the frames sit flat on the side pieces. Less gaps = less hive beetle hiding spots.

I've never heard of dowels being used for that purpose. A flat strip of wood would attach more securely than a dowel.

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Almond Thompson

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working on the roof today. How well does it need to fit? It will keep rain and snow off but it seem rather wiggly.

Carla Burke

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If it's just a bit wiggly, you could probably strap it down. Are you making it peaked or flat? Will it be metal clad? Will there be room for insulation of some sort, under it?

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This is the search result on Doug and Stacey's YT channel for "bees". They have quite a few videos and play lists, including how to catch swarms.Based in Missouri, if memory serves me right.
https://www.youtube.com/@OFFGRIDwithDOUGSTACY/search?query=bees

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Almond Thompson wrote:Anybody have any thoughts about the bars?

I'm a beekeeping newbie (newbee?) myself. In fact, I just got my first swarm this week!

I recently made my own Kenyan top bar hive, from all found materials, EXCEPT for the wood for the bars and follower boards. I bought new wood for those. I was advised that if those aren't straight, then the bees might try to fill in the cracks, which would make removing the top bars more difficult. Also the pattern of comb they build is dictated by the bar, so if it's not more or less straight, then the comb may not be. Not a huge deal, but may affect the comb's structural integrity when you remove it. It's also important to have the correct spacing between the bars, otherwise they might build comb between the bars, which also makes it difficult to use the bars the way they were designed.

I know Mother Nature don't like straight lines; nor do I, but in limited cases such as this, it seems to make sense.

2023-06-06-07.52.57.jpg

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