Literal Nightmare Beginning to Develop Please Help me figure this out

So we live in TN in a conventional home with all the "normal" stuff. Running water, septic, etc. Then we woke up years later and decided we wanted a different lifestyle and to be more independent from the system. The situation I have found myself in is this. Septic tank had a major clog in mainline. We had a company come out fix it, pump the septic , install a clean out because there wasn't one, and they also installed something on the drain field side of the tank, some kind of pipe he said would help, but ever since we've been having issues.  Now any time I wash clothes, it backs up, too much TP, it's a problem, you name it I'm dealing with it. It's a nightmare. I say okay how do we fix this. What if we take some of the pressure off the tank by running the washer to a grey water system (I'm thinking worms underground but haven't worked it out completely) because the washer is what is causing most of the issues. but if I'm honest we should remove the sinks and bathtubs as well just to give more longevity to the septic because then it would only be carrying the toilets. So I start researching and find out that in TN if you already have conventional systems installed they won't "allow" you to do grey water?!? Is anyone here in Tennessee and working around this? Main issue is that we will probably want to sell in the future. And I can't afford to install another entire septic. I'm scared to death some authority will get called out here and they will condemn the house.  Has anyone else dealt with something similar? What did you ultimately do? Any and all ideas would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance.

First thing I would do is call the septic guy and ask why his "fixes" aren't working. Curious though, how many people in your household? The septic field may be undersized, but sounds like you weren't having problems untli recently.  

If you wahing machine is old then it probably uses more water than it needs to (my washer uses 30 gals for a medium load). They aren't cheap, but a new efficient washer would help alleviate some of the problem. My buddy tells me the new ones spin out very well so that puts less strain on the dryer and he saves some money there.

Other suggestions would include treating the system with Ridex or "green gobbler" septic treatment. These treatments take time to work so would be best to use a laundromat for the wash cycle, if that's a possibility. This will give your system some time to heal (maybe 15-30 days?). Sounds like you believe TP (I assume toilet paper) may be a contributing factor as well. Look for septic-safe brands (this goes for laundry detergent as well). If that doesn't fix the problem, I say you need to have your septic/leachfield inspected & repaired if you need to do things "by the book".

I like Pete's suggestion of calling the septic guy to find out why his fix isn't fixing.

I would recommend not putting toilet paper in the commode since that sounds like one of the issues.

Get s special trash can to set next to the commode.  If it is "mellow yellow" the paper goes in that can.  Brown goes in the commode.

I would also suggest washing smaller loads to see if that would help.

Use the washer at times when the sinks and tubs aren't being used.

Don't run the dishwasher and the washing machine at the same time.

I hope some of these suggestions will help.

Also, you might do what we did with our washing machine.

We made a "French drain" that runs along the side of the house.

First, we dug a deep trench, then we added pea gravel because that is what we had.

A pipe brings the washing machine water into the trench.

No one knows the French drain is there.  I never see any water on the ground though I only wash clothes for two people.

The French drain can be disguised as a flower bed with perennial brushes.

Pete Podurgiel wrote:First thing I would do is call the septic guy and ask why his "fixes" aren't working. Curious though, how many people in your household? The septic field may be undersized, but sounds like you weren't having problems untli recently.  

If you wahing machine is old then it probably uses more water than it needs to (my washer uses 30 gals for a medium load). They aren't cheap, but a new efficient washer would help alleviate some of the problem. My buddy tells me the new ones spin out very well so that puts less strain on the dryer and he saves some money there.

Other suggestions would include treating the system with Ridex or "green gobbler" septic treatment. These treatments take time to work so would be best to use a laundromat for the wash cycle, if that's a possibility. This will give your system some time to heal (maybe 15-30 days?). Sounds like you believe TP (I assume toilet paper) may be a contributing factor as well. Look for septic-safe brands (this goes for laundry detergent as well). If that doesn't fix the problem, I say you need to have your septic/leachfield inspected & repaired if you need to do things "by the book".

Yes, previous to having them come and pump and do what he claimed was a repair to help, things have got much worse. We had a clog in the mainline. Not a huge deal. But figured since it hadn't ever been pumped since living here that we might as well. I have just been racking my brain trying to figure out what on earth to do. If I set the alternatives then what do we do to sell the house later on? From what I understand here in TN if we purchased property and never had running water or a septic installed then we could use alternatives? But the second you already have conventional systems and then want to switch they won't allow that.

As for the toilet paper, I don't know what the problem is but I was just thinking maybe stopping putting in the toilet would help. Maybe instead using a bidet and cloth wipe system? We use cloth diapers for the little one anyways so it just seemed like a sensible switch. If I install alternatives how do you hide them in case an inspection needs to be done later for resell of the home? Is that even possible? Then I also have freezes so what ever system is implemented it has to be able to perform in cold climates.

Has anyone ever sold a home after implementing alternatives in a state that doesn't "allow" those systems? What happened?

As for the washing machine yes we have an older one and intentionally switched back after purchasing a really expensive set that not only didn't wash clothes as well but fried during a storm, just outside the warranty and the company refused to stand by it and the cost of repairs was insane. more then just replacing it. So no, I will not be using the new ones. Personally feel like they are total waste and designed to fail. But to each their own 😉

Anne Miller wrote:Also, you might do what we did with our washing machine.

We made a "French drain" that runs along the side of the house.

First, we dug a deep trench, then we added pea gravel because that is what we had.

A pipe brings the washing machine water into the trench.

No one knows the French drain is there.  I never see any water on the ground though I only wash clothes for two people.

The French drain can be disguised as a flower bed with perennial brushes.

I like this idea, how does it hold up during freezes? And is it visible if someone did an inspection of the home for resell? I'm not entirely certain what all they check during that...

We covered the trench with maybe a foot of dirt.

That is the area where I walk the dog.

As I said no one knows it is there.

I can't say much about freezing as I don't have much experience since I live in sunny Texas.

We rarely get snow and freezing down to -7 is rare.

I dry clothes outside on the clothesline so I only wash during the best days for doing that.

It would be good to hear from folks with French drains in the colder states.

I have sold several homes though none with a French drain.  I don't feel like an inspector is going to dig up your yard looking for things that aren't apparent especially if that area just looks like a flower bed.

I asked Mr. Google:

Your French drain will function year-round and won't have problems like frozen obstructions brought on either by the freezing or thawing cycles if it is installed below the frost level.

https://www.orderaplumber.com/blog/2022/november/french-drains-are-they-suitable-for-cold-climate/

Pete Podurgiel wrote:First thing I would do is call the septic guy and ask why his "fixes" aren't working.

Definitely. if things were better before, there's something wrong.
this is neither here nor there, as i am far from Tennessee and the hookup was to town sewer, not a septic system, but it's happened in my immediate circle three times in the past five years and it is the first thing that came to mind: plumber installed something wrong, something is not connected correctly, etc. At our shop the plumber somehow managed to install a junction combining outflow from two toilets to the sewer line in such a way that it clogged immediately (it hurts my mind to even think about how that happened) . Something similar happened with my neighbor, and my mother's air conditioner drain got connected to the wrong pipe in the attic (!), causing the whole unit to go kaboom. Things happen, unfortunately.
Find out exactly what the heck that new pipe is that got installed, and see if it isn't the cause of everything going to heck. See if they can go back through to make sure everything is connected right, because if it wasn't backing up before, it shouldn't be now (especially if there is a now a cleanout). Then worry about your graywater options, but I think right now it's more of a consumer issue.

The house I moved into required a bit of work when I first moved in. We had a blockage of our main that caused backing up issues. We instantly assumed the septic was failing because it was installed sometime in the 40's or 50's.

After calling about five plumbers, I got someone in to work on it. I dug out the exterior pipe (Orangeberg) and replaced the segment while I was there. Because we had the separation, we found the clog right at the main house exit. This occured because the strapping that held the pipe in the basement popped and caused the descent to become a sharper angle than it should of been. Pipe restrapped and haven't had an issue in five years. I still really need to find the septic cover and inspect it...

Get the plumber back, it sounds like there still is a blockage.

Timothy Norton wrote:...Get the plumber back, it sounds like there still is a blockage.

Definitely get the plumber back to give them a chance to fix their mistake.  Regarding using the greywater... I like the "French Drain" Anne recommends...they are buried rocks and as your drain is natural and not necessarily a technical "drain" (with pipe), you could have added aesthetics that were buried.  As for any greywater redirects...make them removeable for when you sell the house.  

Evelynn Renee wrote: and they also installed something on the drain field side of the tank, some kind of pipe he said would help, but ever since we've been having issues.  

A filter perhaps? Now required in some places, was not when ours was put in in the early 90s. Ten years later when the in-laws had theirs put in the installer told them to remove it as soon as the inspector left. Said it was 'required' but would stop up and cause more problems than it solves.

Edit: Agree with most of the other advice given, just offering this as the possible reason.

Anne Miller wrote:......It would be good to hear from folks with French drains in the colder states.

Colder state, yes; French drain, no. For washing machine, it just goes through a pipe and......out.  We use an ecofriendly detergent.  It's quite possible that we had a few incidences recently due to blockage from freezing:  Wife had attached standard sump hose (~1.5" dia) at the end of the fall and there were some dips in the downward sloping of the hose outside.  Needless to say, these dip points will retain water and freeze solid.  Once replaced by 4" flexible drain tubing and ensuring no dips, runs great.....even in cold weather. [We might refrain from washing clothes when between -30 and -20F, but above that would be fine......the warm water efflux would probably melt any previous ice build-up so no damming over time.]

Septic:  Frost depth here is 5', so you gamble with pipes above that.  Which the previous owners did.  So the main pipes exiting the house and the tank itself, are around 2' deep (top of tank), then the drain field which likely is not much deeper.  [The soil is sloping gradually downward away from the house, so the buried piping just follows the grade in a downward slope.]  We are hoping to keep this system that has been here since the 1970s since it's just the two of us and we are conservative on water use and how much goes into that system.  This year is a bit of a pleasant worry:  El Nino has brought warmer than average temperatures (teens to 30s)....but also little snow -- Snow that normally insulates the ground and reduces frost depth if/when the sub-zero F temperatures return.  (Which, since we are constantly waiting for "the other shoe to drop", most likely will happen shortly into the New Year.  :-/  ]  So we are much hoping for 12 - 18" snow minimum soon to help our cause.  

Otherwise, just keep blockages out of the system and, depending on how much water trying to be moved through the system on any given day, it should function for you.  Agree here with others....get the previous repair person back out:  They already know the work they did, so don't have to re-invent the wheel as they probe for the problem.  Good luck!

Hey when I first bought my house my pipe that goes from the septic to the leach field was crushed. It had basically rolled up into 2 tiny 1" pipes instead of a single 4" because, according to my buddy who fixed it, they used leach field pipe where they should have used schedule 80. So it worked until it got overloaded. Which was basically long enough for the shysters we bought the place from to cash their check....

Anyways, just an idea. But really the idea is the septic guy does a test to see if water heading to the drain/leach field comes back and if it does, he figures out why. This requires them to pump the tank down but since their fix didn't work I would want you to get the pumping for free.

In my case it was digging 130ft of pipe that was up to 7ft down and replacing with the right stuff. Luckily I have a friend with a mini X and he does septic installs al of the time, and for a reasonable price. Also luckily I got this done in 2018 before we went full on inflatio-tacular in this country. I think we paid 70-80 bucks an hour for the work.

I would take the lid of the tank and find out if it is backing up because the drain field and tank is backing up or if there is a clog between the house and the tank causing the problem.

Once you know that you have place to start.


Without knowing more about your situation, sometimes to little water can be a problem.  Especially when old houses are retrofitted with water saving toilets and faucets and washers.  All the waste needs to be floated to the tank in the pipes, as long as there is lots of water everything works fine.  But if you start reducing your water use but are still producing the same amount of waste it is possible that there is not enough water flow to keep the pipes clean.  I am not saying this is your issue without knowing what lead up to your problems.

Evelynn Renee wrote: Septic tank had a major clog in mainline. We had a company come out fix it, pump the septic , install a clean out because there wasn't one, and they also installed something on the drain field side of the tank, some kind of pipe he said would help, but ever since we've been having issues.  Now any time I wash clothes, it backs up, too much TP, it's a problem, you name it I'm dealing with it. It's a nightmare. I say okay how do we fix this.

Hey there Evelynn. I am in the middle of a septic system drama myself. Not fun.

I am trying to understand  your septic tank. Around here, they are always two chambers, with two separate risers and lids. The first is the digester where everything accumulates, the anaerobic bacteria chew up all the bio-bits, and a raft of "happy stuff" that the bacteria couldn't eat floats on top. All the digested fluids trickle down into a second tank where the pump periodically moves it to a leach tank or septic field. With this system, TP and other rubbish should never reach the second chamber of the tank, let alone the field.

Is your septic tank a single chamber design? Your description suggests this. Up here, code requires that new installations have a mesh cage to ensure the pump cannot be clogged with "happy stuff." Mostly I suspect this is to prevent ex-urbanites from backing up the sewer, since "flushables" no longer magically disappear. (My septic sucking guy backs this opinion -- he is run off his feet with these issues.)

If your tank is a single chamber, can you install a simple wire cage to keep the "happy raft" away from the pump? That is what I would do.

Luck!

TP is not your friend. That's why other countries love Bidets, but Americans are squeamish for some reason. Much more sanitary IMO. We also overuse garbage disposals instead of composting which is another problem. Very little vegetative waste should be going down the sink- what about a diverter to capture the rinse off from dishes and directing to your compost area? Washers pump out vast quantities of water which I believe can be used for watering if its the right detergent. Of course I think shower water is fine too- do we forget all the crap that's running off the roofs and streets, starting with animal waste?
The goal is to prevent graywater from BECOMING blackwater, and to limit the strain on the septic tank so the drain FIELD can filter the water.

I second the bidet idea. I installed them on both toilets in our home - the $40 version at Home Depot attaches under a conventional toilet seat and has a water connection that goes between the tank-fill hose and the tank. You can install it in 20 minutes or less. And here in the tropics, a cool blast of water on a hot summer day is quite refreshing - but you folks from more northern climes might give thought to an inline water reservoir that at least gets water up to room temperature before skeeting it on your delicate parts. Toilet paper use has almost ceased in this house.

Don't know if this is related,  but sharing the story just in case.

Whenever we have had lodgers, we get toilet paper clogs.  Apparently,  they didn't know to buy septic tank friendly tp and just used the city variety.   Which is fair if you've never had to maintain a septic system before as the writing saying it's septic safe is tiny.

...

When we first moved in to one house, the pipe to the septic tank was sagging.   In an ideal world,  it would be a gradual slope but this one had a foot or so dip so the shit had to flow uphill at that spot...it made a lot of clogs.  We had to get a machine to dig it out, lift the pipe, put a huge amount of sand underneath, and that stopped the clog.

...

Another issue we had with lodgers more recently is they were too conservative with water.   The old system in this house relies on enough water moving through regularly to flush the solids through the pipes.

But that is the age and design of the system.   Modern systems don't seem so sensitive.

I thought I had replied to this post but apparently not. My guess is it is in between the tank and the house right around the cleanout area they added in. Sewer pipe is supposed to drop x inches across so many feet. I don’t know off the top of my head the formula. If it’s not steep enough it can’t move paper / solids and will clog. Too steep and it just runs the water fast and it leaves behind the solids.

This is what Timothy said his issue was when the hanger broke. His water was running too fast to carry anything with it. Once the correct drop was achieved no more problem.

I think it really will be something that simple because very frequently they just send laborers to do the work and the actual plumber doesn’t show up. Low paid or inexperienced labor will think it “close enough”

Even if they won’t come back which they absolutely should this would be an easy fix not costing a lot.  Is this pier and beam house or slab?

that ideal slope is 1-2%, or 1/8 - 1/4 inch per foot for sewer line. If a sewer pipe is flooded, like if it is a pumped flow, then the minimum velocity should be 2 feet per second to keep it from settling.

1% is also a good slope for a shower floor