Breadmaking machines loaves hard crust and do not rise all the way

Kw Velasco wrote:Chris - how has your bread been cooking lately?

Hoping that you have delicious bread!

Sue McKenna wrote:Hi, Chris! I have a 25-year-old Breadman and it worked perfectly when I lived on the front range in Colorado. Like you, since I moved up to the mountains, it's been doing weird things. I found explanations of the process and I'd like to share.  I'm no expert. I've made mistakes and learned. Sorry if these are really basic instructions to experienced breadmakers. please bear with me. Or, if you have time, jump in and critique my process.  I'd love it. That said, away we go!

Use fresh ingredients. Flour and fresh yeast are the most important. Make sure your yeast is active. Anne's suggestion to proof your yeast is right.  If you are okay with buying a new jar of yeast, you will be certain. I keep mine in the refrigerator once it has been opened. I don't know if you have that option, any place cool and dry  would do. Most bread machine recipes call for breadmachine yeast.  Also, I didn't know this, but flour can dry out quicker at high altitudes and won't make good bread. It's drier up here.

Exact measurements. Use a spoon to put dry ingredients in measuring cups and level off with a knife. I didn't at first and wondered why my loaves had huge holes - too much yeast. Use a clear measuring cup with markings on the side for liquids and view at eye-level. .  

Almost all recipes include some kind of oil or butter so the dough doesn't stick to the pan. I also coat my pan and kneading paddle with oil or vegetable shortening  because it's scratched.

One of the things I learned was to make sure my water was the right temperature. I heat it in my coffee maker, pour it in the measuring cup, add the salt, sugar, and oil or butter. Stir. I stick a candy thermometer in there and watch until it goes below 100 degrees F. I wish I had something more precise, but hey inexpensive candy thermometer. By then I have my dry ingredients measured and ready.

Add the ingredients in this order: Liquid, Dry and Yeast. Make an indentation (poke a shallow little hole) in the flour to the side of the kneading paddle. Not the middle and not as deep as the liquid.

Okay. Here's the Key.

The bread machine has 3 functions: mix (knead), rise, and bake, just like making bread the old fashioned way without a machine.  I'm going to put the times in. They're necessarily approximate. If you're nearby your machine, you can hear the changes from mixing to rising, then mixing to rising, then baking. Also, each recipe is a little different as far as timing is concerned.

It goes like this:
1st mixing-10 minutes
1st rise (short rise)- 20 minutes

Here it is! The Most Important Thing, the key, the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything
2nd mixing- 15 minutes
This is where we make adjustments to the dough ball.
If the machine is knocking, the dough is too dry, so I sprinkle in water, a teaspoon at time. Also, if the dough is flaky (it's not coming together in a ball), it needs water. Because who needs flaky dough?
If the dough is sticky or wet like pancake batter, sprinkle in flour, a tablespoon at a time. Now I'm thinking about pancakes.
We want a nice round, dry and smooth doughball that circles nicely in the pan!

Then let the machine carry on and make you delicious bread.

Oh my gosh this is long. Sorry

Adjust the doughball during the 2nd kneading with water or flour
Sue

MiaSherwood Landau wrote:Chris, my dad’s mom was German, so maybe I inherited my love of heavy pumpernickel bread from her genetic code. Especially the loaves with sunflower seeds! Anyway, I have torn out pages of a vintage bread maker book I got at a thrift shop. I save the recipes I like and discard the rest, which means I cannot take a photo of the book for you. But if you want the heavy, dark bread recipes I’ve collected feel free to PM me your email address (or put it in this thread) and I will send you photos of the pages. Hoping they work for you, too!

Dian Green wrote:How is the interior? Is it fully cooked or a bit underdone?
So long as it is fully cooked, you might be able to just end the cycle bit earlier and see if that gives you a softer crust since it looks fairly dark to me.

As already mentioned, your yeast may be a bit old and so is slow to get to work raising the bread. ( being whole wheat slows it down too) It seems like you might be able to get a better outcome if you could stop or pause the machine during its second rise and let it get a bit higher before the baking. It would mean more work on your end and I'm not sure how easy it is to do that kind of change but you might be able to do it in the settings. I know we've used a few different programs with various recipes to get what we want.

S Smithsson wrote:How did the loaf come out with the gluten? And what temp water are you using? Is this a recipe that came with the machine?

Sandy

Cat Knight wrote:When we had a bread machine, we'd just use it on the dough setting and bake it manually to get the crust we wanted. That method also gave us bread that didn't look like it was made in the bread machine.

MiaSherwood Landau wrote:Here’s the bread maker Pumpernickel Bread recipe I mentioned, hoping it’s ok to post here without credit to the author. It is so delicious I have to cut it and freeze part of it immediately or I’ll devour the entire loaf!

Be sure to note: Quantities of ingredients are specified for large and small loaves, so you need to know if your bread maker makes 1, 1.5, or 2 pound loaves. Also, this author suggests running whole grain recipes through the kneading cycle twice. Perhaps that would be especially useful at high altitude. Enjoy!

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:Okay, Chris, I consulted the Master Baker regarding your recipe and method.

To help with the rising, she would add vital wheat gluten, about 1 to 1-1/2 tsp for every cup of flour. She buys a bag off Amazon and it lasts us 6 months (and we make a lot of bread).

(Side note: She says it's widely known that Canadian wheat typically has more gluten than American wheat. And we still add more for breadmaking.)

She also suggests it's overbaking, which makes a much harder and thicker crust. She would  pull it out of the breadmaker 10-15 minutes before the "official" bake cycle is complete.

I'll post her recipe when I get a chance.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:A plastic bag seems pretty radical. Perhaps wrapping with a clean tea towel right out of the breadmaker might hold a bit of steam and temper the crust hardness a bit?

Looks like a nice loaf though!

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:Not to worry. We've had a weird loaf or two until we figured out the magic. Keep going mate!

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:
I think baking your own bread is a declaration of sorts,... a sweet little bit of independence nonetheless.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:Chris, we're all waiting for an update. What happened?

Chris Longski wrote: Everything is fine.  During the third and last "ferment" cycle I pause the machine to get the rise I want then let it lapse into bake.  From the pictures I think you'll see the loaves are excellent now.  

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

Chris Longski wrote: Everything is fine.  During the third and last "ferment" cycle I pause the machine to get the rise I want then let it lapse into bake.  From the pictures I think you'll see the loaves are excellent now.  

Chris, that's awesome. You've cracked the code. Good job mate!

Chris Longski wrote:Not getting good rise on the whole wheat loaves.  The loaf collapses a bit while baking.  But I never did get it to rise like the white bread I paused to rise more last week.  

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

Chris Longski wrote:Not getting good rise on the whole wheat loaves.  The loaf collapses a bit while baking.  But I never did get it to rise like the white bread I paused to rise more last week.  

But is it cooked through? If so, you are still in the zone!

My dear wife is trying to figure out how to convert a sourdough sponge into a multigrain loaf. Not a single fail -- even when it's dense. Popping this into the toaster is completely awesome. And she is a restless, skilled baker -- it will only get better. I'm a lucky guy.

Chris Longski wrote:

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

Chris Longski wrote:Not getting good rise on the whole wheat loaves.  The loaf collapses a bit while baking.  But I never did get it to rise like the white bread I paused to rise more last week.  

But is it cooked through? If so, you are still in the zone!

My dear wife is trying to figure out how to convert a sourdough sponge into a multigrain loaf. Not a single fail -- even when it's dense. Popping this into the toaster is completely awesome. And she is a restless, skilled baker -- it will only get better. I'm a lucky guy.

Am glad I didn't get a lot of whole wheat flour !  Do you use the gluten in whole wheat bread?   Can you add baking powder for more rise ?  

Chris Longski wrote: Do you know of a bread machine recipe for German black bread ?  I used to love that stuff when I lived in Germany...